Ok, this Birther - Barack is a Foreigner - stuff has jus plain gotten completely out of hand, now that 10 members of the house have actually proposed legislation to compell any future Presidential Candidates to prove that they are a natural citizen, as if their opponents wouldn't jump up and down all over any such allegations if they were legitimate?
If you have had, as I have, or expect to have an argument with a "Birther" - particularly since this has clearly moved from mere "conspiracy Theory" to an issue of potential legislation being driving by Repubs - IMO you need to read this diary.
Just to back Matthews up a bit here's a video from Cenk at Young Turks that goes much further into tearing this issue apart by using FactCheck.org to analyze Obama's documentation in detail.
As Cenk shows Factcheck goes through each and eery claim that the presented documentation is not authentic using the following close up pics to make his point.
Copy Provided by Obama
Showing the Folds.
Signature on the Back
The Raised Seal
Close Up of City of Birth
Unredacted Certification Number
Birth Announcement from Local Honolulu Paper filed by Obama's Grand Parents
Now, the funny thing about this, and the thing that keeps the Birthers coming back even when you do display all the above - as Matthews, Cenk and Fact Check do - is the fact this this document really isn't Obama's Birth Certificate.
Hey, stop throwing rocks... I'm serious.
No, I'm not supporting a Conspiracy Theory on Dkos - that would be a TOS violation, I'm just saying. as Yoda would - There is Another.
This document is Obama's "Certification of Live Birth", it is essentially the "Short Form" of his certificate and most states including Hawaii have another longer form which includes details such as Birth Weight, possibly even a footprint and such to help confirm the identity of the child. (Y'know the stuff that Identity Theft is made of...?)
Here's what Fact Check Says about it.
The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.
What all these Birther as clamoring for - Is the Long Form, not this one.
They argue, that they've found examples of foreign citizens who've managed to forge the short form and therefore the ability to commit such a forgery automatically de-legitimizes the form supplied by Obama. It's sort of saying that simply because someone can counterfeit a $20 Bill, every other $20 is therefore invalid.
Yeah, Right - Ok....
The problem that they have, and the answer to FactChecks unanswered question about the Long Form, is that the Short Form is all that All You Need to Prove Citizenship Under the Law
Per Hawaiian law, Statue 338.13, any certified copies of the original document can serve the same purpose as the original document.
"(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18."
Usually the certification is stamped and signed on the lower reverse side of the document and says "I certify this is a true copy or abstract of the record on file in the Hawaii State Department of Health."
Still, the Birthers demand access to the Long Form - however Hawaii State Law restricts access to the long form only to those with a tangible interest in obtaining it. Since the short form is legally valid, there is no "tangible interest" for those outside the Obama family, period.
But still they don't stop clamoring.
One of the issues that I felt trumped all of his was the issue that trumped this argument for George Romney who was born in Mexico and John McCain who was born in Panama. In both of these cases these candidates are still citizens because of the citizenship of their parents, so I figured So was Obama because of his American Born Mother - but as it turns out I was wrong.
* If you were born before November 14, 1986, you are a citizen if your U.S. citizen parent lived in the United States for at least 10 years and 5 of those years in the United States were after your citizen parent's 14th birthday.
This essentially says that prior to 1986, the U.S. Citizen Parent would have to be at least 19 years old in order for that citizenship to be automatically conferred onto their children who were born overseas. Barack's mother Ann Dunham-Obama was only 18 Years Old on August
Yeah, I thought Alan Keyes sounded like a complete lunatic when he made this statement but he's actually correct, he's just wrong about everything else.
The other thing that continues to drive the Birthers are Videos such as the following which includes a an interview with Baracks's Grandmother in Kenya.
She says "Barack is a Son of this Village" and this is shown captioned by the original BBC Report, however the edits added to this video attempt to claim that there is a Different translation of her statement and what she's "Really" saying is "Barack was Born in this Village".
Beyond the fact that this video disagrees with itself this claim exposes the absolutely weakest part of the entire Birther argument. In Order for Barack Hussein Obama Jr. to have been Born Anywhere - it had to be where is MOTHER was located
Is there any evidence, a passport, a visa, State Department or Airline Records that indicate that Ann Dunham-Obama left the United States just prior to August 4th, 1961? In order for these people to be correct an 18 year-old 9 month pregnant girl made an approx 15,000 Mile trip from Hawaii to Nyang’oma Kogelo, Kenya - did it without leaving a trace - and arrived back home making the 15,000 return trip with her infant son and arriving before the beginning of her next semester of College in September.
Are you Fracking Kidding Me?
Beyond the Short Form/Long Form issue, beyond the Parental/Age Citizenship problem, and the interpretion/translation of comments which may or may not have been made by his Grandmother there is STILL the physical realities of the situation.
Supposedly somebody snuck this girl out of the U.S., then snuck her back in again - to an ISLAND 3000 Miles out into the Pacific - faked a birth certification, faked a birth announcement, did it without leaving a paper trail or money trail and managed to fool everyone in Hawaii, the Clinton Campaign and the McCain Campaign without making a mistake?
I mean, geez, if that's the kind of thing Barack Obama Jr. is capable of - don't you think it's better having someone like that on our side?
I mean, y'now, if you're just plain NUTS that is...
Vyan
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