Beck: The Problem is that everybody is playing politics with a national tragedy. Paul Krugman says it's long past time took a stand against Hate Mongers. I don't need to tell you MSNBC said. Hink: They think Fox pulled the trigger. Media Matters wants us to be told what to say on or off the air. I don't use it, on or off the air so I guess I'm in compliance.
I would stand with Barack Obama and even Van Jones if they would stand against Politicing Violence?
Yes, Really. Amazing isn't it?
So I guess fantasizing about the murder of Michael Moore and Nancy Policy isn't "Violent Rhetoric". What is it then - High Comedy?
Palin on Bulls eyes: It was never meant to be Gun Sites, it was meant to be Cross hairs.
Gee, where would you find Cross hairs? On Gun Sites. Simply asking the question "Have some of the Death Threats that have been thrown at dozens of Democrats finally led to one being shot?" Just as people have looked at many situations going all the way back to the original Oklahoma City Bombing and stated that presumed based on the odds that it may have been "Muslim Terrorism" - people did indeed look at the most likely scenario in this case, and that was that Yet Another Right-Wing Wacko was probably at fault.
Just like James Adkisson who shot and killed 2 people, wounded 5 in Knoxville Tenneesee because they were LIBERALS, James Van Brunn who killed a guard at the Holocaust Musuem on the way to his next target - David Axelrod, Byron Williams who attempted to assassinate members of the ACLU and Tides Foundation because GLENN BECK SAID THEY WERE EVIL, Justin Moose who attempted to bomb women's clinics, Scott Reoder the Right-Wing Fanatic who Killed Dr. George Tiller after being influenced by the 700 Club and incessant anti-Tiller publicity from Bill O'Reilly, James Cumming's who tried to build a radiological dirty bomb because he hated Obama, Richard Poplowski who killed police in Pittsburgh because "Obama wants our Guns", or the Hutaree Militia who were going to firebomb the funerals of police officers to start a "Civil War" against the government.
Here's a quick refresher on recent anti-government political violence and terrorism from last April.
Why would anyone have any of that come to mind when they hear a Democratic Congressperson had been shot? In the last couple years the number of acts of vandalism and death threats against members of congress has gone up 300%. To argue that the current environment hasn't been violently toxic is ridiculous
And Glenn, as a point of fact this what they said on MSNBC, and it wasn't that "FOX PULLED THE TRIGGER" - Olbermann admitted that some of his own harsh rhetoric may have been to blame for creating the "climate" and he apologized for it. He took some responsibility, something that Beck and his ilk - would never do.
But it's not just Beck whose spouting this nonsense, it's already become the Fox Corporate Line that They are the True Victims of this tragedy.
Despite what Fox says about "no prominent Liberal" calling for people not to "Rush to judgment" the first person I saw tweet that jumping to conclusions was premature - at 1:29 pm Saturday within hours of the event - was Rachel Maddow.
@Maddow There is nothing to be gained from speculating on the motives and affiliations of AZ shooter w/o facts.
It's also interesting that Fox seems to be taking this criticism of "Right Wing Media" so personally - me think thou dost protest...
Getting into the facts, the argument that the DLC map looks like the Palin Target map is just nonsense, it has circles with dots inside - not Cross Hairs. There's no way you could even Imagine that it's indicating the use of weaponry. It looks more like ball bearings.
The argument that BoyBlue's post was some kind of Death Threat Against Rep. Giffords is a Lie, he was just saying he's done with supporting her after the Pelosi Leadership vote - not that she should DiE!
The argument that Markos used Crosshairs images to target Gifford's for a Primary is also a Lie. That "Bulls Eyes" graphic was added by the Daily Caller, then used by Tea Party Express to Fund Raise in the wake of the tragedy?
Politicizing it? These frackers are Making Money On it. (Arguably, so did Moveon.org)
But I mean seriously who are these people trying to kid? Yes, as I said, Krugman among others asked the obvious question "Did the Right Wing Do this?" But asking a question isn't coming to a conclusion.
When you heard the terrible news from Arizona, were you completely surprised? Or were you, at some level, expecting something like this atrocity to happen?
Put me in the latter category. I’ve had a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach ever since the final stages of the 2008 campaign. I remembered the upsurge in political hatred after Bill Clinton’s election in 1992 — an upsurge that culminated in the Oklahoma City bombing. And you could see, just by watching the crowds at McCain-Palin rallies, that it was ready to happen again. The Department of Homeland Security reached the same conclusion: in April 2009 an internal report warned that right-wing extremism was on the rise, with a growing potential for violence.
Conservatives denounced that report. But there has, in fact, been a rising tide of threats and vandalism aimed at elected officials, including both Judge John Roll, who was killed Saturday, and Representative Gabrielle Giffords. One of these days, someone was bound to take it to the next level. And now someone has.
It’s true that the shooter in Arizona appears to have been mentally troubled. But that doesn’t mean that his act can or should be treated as an isolated event, having nothing to do with the national climate.
Last spring Politico.com reported on a surge in threats against members of Congress, which were already up by 300 percent. A number of the people making those threats had a history of mental illness — but something about the current state of America has been causing far more disturbed people than before to act out their illness by threatening, or actually engaging in, political violence.
I don't know if I entirely agree with Krugman's premise here that the permisiveness of threats running back and forth in the media have made the idea of actually going through with some maniacal violent plot far more plausible to those who are already most likely to slip completely over the edge into violence and madness - not just in this specific case - but in general. It's not a bad point, and it potentially deserves some debate - but I wouldn't say that it's a "slam dunk".
However it's the next part that really put a burr under Fox's fur.
Where’s that toxic rhetoric coming from? Let’s not make a false pretense of balance: it’s coming, overwhelmingly, from the right. It’s hard to imagine a Democratic member of Congress urging constituents to be “armed and dangerous” without being ostracized; but Representative Michele Bachmann, who did just that, is a rising star in the G.O.P.
And there’s a huge contrast in the media. Listen to Rachel Maddow or Keith Olbermann, and you’ll hear a lot of caustic remarks and mockery aimed at Republicans. But you won’t hear jokes about shooting government officials or beheading a journalist at The Washington Post. Listen to Glenn Beck or Bill O’Reilly, and you will.
And that's the difference. It's not just about saying something rude, or saying something mean - it's about threatening someones Life. O'Reilly did "Joke" about Beating up and Beheading Dana Milbank (ala the Taliban) because he didn't like something he wrote.
Was it ok because he thought it was funny?
Glenn Beck REALLY DID openly fantasize about Murdering Nancy Pelosi with Poison and choking Michael Moore to death (I keep posting these videos over and over, because in the "he said/he said" between Krugman and Fox - there really are Facts to grab onto - and they don't support Fox)
Fox is playing a game where talking about choking someone to death, or poisoning them, or bashing them with a baseball bat, or decapitating them is all just Fun and Games - but if you have a picture that doesn't have cross hairs, have a post that doesn't put a Bulls Eye on a Congressman, say someone is "Dead to You" by way of separating yourself from supporting them because, gee, That's Hateful Speech.
How in the world does it work that Palin didn't mean to suggest a threat with Cross hairs and "Reloads", and Sharon Angle wasn't issuing a threat with "Second Amendment Remedies" and Michele Bachmann didn't really mean "Armed and Dangerous" but somehow the DLC's innocuous little map, and Kos's 2008 reference to putting a "bulls eye on these districts" and BoyBlue's "she's dead to me" did?
I watched a bit of Hannity tonight and on it S.E. Cupp said.
Even if Jared Loughner did have allegiance to the Tea Party - that doesn't 'mean they had allegiance to him!
Ok, what kind of double talk is that?
Did anyone of Fox Seriously think just because the 9-11 Hijackers had allegiance to Islam, it doesn't mean that Islam (and Park51) had allegiance to THEM?
NO! What we heard was "Muslim's killed us on 9-11!!!
What we heard instead was "Not all Muslim's are Terrorist, but All Terrorists Are Muslims!"
I mean S.E.'s point is essential correct in theory, but it goes directly against the Repeated Right-Wing Meme that when it comes to dangerous people, it's better, safer and neccesary to PROFILE them by group rather than take the time to look at them as individuals.
But somehow now it's going Beyond the Freaking Pale to even consider that yet another Right-Wing Nut Bag might have gone off an killed (or tried to kill) a bunch of people? AGAIN?
No, no - you see this is really part of a Great Liberal PLOT to blame the Right for everything.
The Liberal Agenda is a Failure? Jobs are Coming Back and Health Care Reform is Starting to Work. You know how to not make an issue political- you Don't make It Political! Going on the air to complain how the left is exploiting a tragedy by blaming the right for it - which they really aren't, except in a very general way about "tone" - while your online minions are running around trying to proclaim that the shooter is really a "Liberal" because he read the "Communist Manifesto" is patently ridiculous.
Tea Party Nation Urged Members To Blame Liberals For Yesterday’s Tragedy. “The hard left is going to try and silence the Tea Party movement by blaming us for this,” he [Tea Party Nation founder Judson Phillips] wrote. Clinton used the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing to “blame conservative talk radio, especially Rush Limbaugh” and “The tactic worked then, backing conservatives off and possibly helping to ensure a second Clinton term. The left is coming and will hit us hard on this. We need to push back harder with the simple truth. The shooter was a liberal lunatic.
This isn't about "Silencing the Tea Party" unless the only way they can get their points across is to Threaten Death On Democrats.
One of Loughner's other favorite books was "We The Living" Ayn Rands first Anti-Communist Novel, so does that make him a lunatic Ron Paul Liberterian? He liked the Wizard of Oz, so that means he was a Munchkin?
His Myspace Page had the Drowning Pool song "Let the Bodies Hit the Floor" - is that a clue?
So I guess it only makes sense that Glenn Beck says we need to take a stand together - Against Sherrif Dupnik.
Yeah, let's not let Media Matters tell you what to say - let's tell Sherrif DUPNIK what to say. No First Amendment For YOU - Sherrif Dupnik, meanwhile Glen's got some more mock strangling to do...cuz that's just hilarous.
I just watched Beck on Fox and Friends this morning, still whining about Sherrif Dupnik and supposedly challenging Barack Obama and Sarah Palin to sign a pledge against violence (but not against violent rhetoric).
Exactly why anyone except people who already like Beck would want to legitimize him by signing that instead of responding the way he and Palin responded to David Brock with ridicule and laughter, especially after he and Fox just launched a campaign to smear their critics, is beyond me.
Look as far I'm concerned this is clearly a coordinated effort by Fox not just to duck responsibility, but shame the left into leaving them alone by whining. All anyone is really saying is that death threats aren't funny or acceptable metaphors and shouldn't be part of our discourse, but rather than admit that and agree with it Fox wants to pretend their being singled-out and victimized for political reasons. It's classic bully cries to the REFs strategy. I'd be happy not to have sit here for hours and debunk their bullcrap point by point and instead focus on something more positive and uplifting but that would be forfeiting the field of debate to them alone and I don't think any of us want to do that.
In all of this back and forth, the people who actually were the front-line first responders in this situation have been completely obliterated. The heroism they displayed, the courage and selflessness literally while under fire is being over-shadowed with finger-pointing, political posturing and back biting and it's a GOD DAMN SHAME.
There have quite a few stunning interviews of the principles, but I don't think it can be ignored that this country has changed and perhaps lost quite a bit of it's character and moral fiber since we last had a tragedy that affected us on nearly this level - and that would be September 11th, 2001. Even the Death of a Nine-Year-Old who was Born on 9-11 hasn't been sobering enough for us to focus on what really matters, supporting those who were wounded and those who left loved ones behind.
So far the only person I've seen that even attempted to capture these elements, was a comedian.
Stewart: Many are working feverishly to exonerate their side from blame. Did the toxic political environment cause this? I have no Fucking Idea. We live in a complex eco-system of influence and motivations and I wouldn't blame our political environment any more than I would blame heavy metal music for Columbine - and by the way - that's coming from someone who truly hates our political environment.
It is toxic, it is unproductive. Boy wouldn't that be nice, to be able to draw a straight line from this horror to something tangible because we could convince ourself that if we just stop "this" then the horrors can be stopped. You can't outsmart Crazy. You don't know what a troubled mind will get caught on. Crazy will find a way, it always has.
I do think it's important for us to watch our rhetoric. I do thin kit's a worthwhile goal not to conflate our political opponents with enemies, if for no other reason than to draw a better distinction between between the manifestos of paranoid madmen and what passes for acceptable political and pundit speak. It would be really nice if the ramblings of crazy people didn't in way resemble how we actually talk to each other on TV. Let's at least make troubled individuals easier to stop.
To see good people like this hurt. It is so grievous and it causes me such sadness, but again I refuse to give in to this feeling of despair. There is light in this situation. I urge everyone to read-up on these people. You will be comforted by how much anonymous goodness there is in the world. People that you don't even know, that you never even met are leading lives of real dignity. Add you hear about crazy but is rarer than you think.
If there is real solace in this, for all the hyperbole and the vitriol that's become a part of our political process, when the reality of that rhetoric - when actions match the disturbing nature of those words - we haven't lost our capacity to be horrified. And please, let us how we never do - let us hope we never become numb to what the real blood of patriots looks like when it's spilled. Maybe this helps us to match our rhetoric to reality more often.
Someone or something will shatter our world again. Wouldn't it be a shame if we didn't take this opportunity, to take the pain that we're going through now to make sure that the world we are creating now - that will ultimately be shattered by an act of lunacy - that that world isn't better than the one we already have.
I'm actually sorry I got to this video last, because it completely cleanses the palate for every thing that has come before.