SHEPARD SMITH: "Can't you say beyond...beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt that what's happening in Iraq is not working as we had hoped it would happen?BILL KRISTOL: Yes.
SMITH: That the terrorism is getting worse? That they are feeding off it? Today, one side is talking about secession if they don't get over it, that the sectarian violence is spreading, that we're clearing out one area and not able to hold it and the insurgents ... that stay the course isn't working? Any more than, maybe, cut and run would work? And that everyone seems to know, but won't say the answer is to add troops not take them away? Where are the people who are looking out for our best interests?
Smith's main point here isn't that we should "cut and run", rather than troop levels should be increased so that the violence can be contained. Not exactly a bad arguement, it's too bad noone in the Administration and none of the Generals have said anything like that to the President.
Oops.
Well, it' s nice we have an agreement isn't it?KRISTOL: Well, I've said that many many times, so often I've been ridiculed for saying "more troops, more troops, more troops." I hope the president...
SMITH: If they really want to win it! [agitated]
KRISTOL: I agree...I hope...
SMITH: But I think they are just paying lip service to all this! [yelling]
KRISTOL: Well, I hope not because it really wouldn't be the right thing to do and I think President Bush wants to do the right thing and I think he knows there's a problem. He can't probably do anything until election day. I very much hope after election day he takes a fresh look at Iraq, sends enough troops, surges the...goes on the offensive there and plays for victory because..
SMITH: Bill..
KRISTOL: it's just too important to just, you know...
SMITH: It's horrifying that you just said he can't do anything until after the election. We've got men and women over there who are dying every day and you just said that the man who you support can't do anything even though you believe he knows it's wrong.
KRISTOL: I...I...urged him...
SMITH: OK, but what is worse that? What is worse than that, Bill Kristol? This isn't working. Well, isn't that what you are saying?
KRISTOL: It's not working....
SMITH: It's not working.
KRISTOL: It's not working, but some of the alternatives would work, would work worse and to be fair to him he has been....look ... I....Two months ago a Democratic senator said to me, I was saying Bush was going to stay the course and I admire him for his sticktoitive.. for his courage on Iraq and he said, "You're kid... You're crazy...everyone in Washington knows he is going to pull troops down before election day. He wants to give those Republican congressional candidates the benefit of seeing troops come home." It is to Bush's credit that he did not do that. We have moved a few more troops into Iraq. Bush has committed...
SMITH: A few more troops. [sarcastically]
KRISTOL: We should... We should ...
SMITH: We're still losing ground in city after city every day...
Yes, we are - because we're playing "whack a mole!" We move into an area, take the insurgents out, we leave - they come back. Gee wouldn't it be nice if the Iraqi troops could move in after we've come through and hold their ground. Maybe if they had the right equipment or their we're too busy planning their next coup attempt. Thank god they had those elections in 2004-05, that solved everything. Not.
Then Kristol begins to admit that what's really driving the way this war is being handled - is politics.
KRISTOL: I agree we should move more, but I think Bush has done...at least he has held his own ...ummm... I don't know...it's going back and forth there right now... I agree we could hit a crisis in two, three, four months unless we surge troops after the election. I thinks its hard to ask Bush to do something in the middle of this election season. We've seen how poisonous this political debate has gotten and I think... I just hope... I think he's right to hang tough and I hope he does the right thing after election day.
SMITH: That's a disgusting and repulsive reality Bill you have to admit that. That we can't do anything about something that is not working and where people are dying until after our elections are over...
Is it a reality, or is it something that we just choose to accept? The President is using the War against the Democrats first, not to mention the Iraqi people. Al-Qaeda and actual terrrorist are running a distant third, if they're even on the list at all. This where Smith truly gets animated.
:et me say it again - Oops. A Fox New Anchor actually calling out a lie from a card-carrying member of PNAC? Is this April Fools?KRISTOL: Well, we could do something... we should do something...but I'm just telling you that....
SMITH: The political reality is we can't. [scornfully]
KRISTOL: it's been a poisonous political debate ...both sides.
SMITH: If I were the mother of a father of a young man who dies between now and that election in this war I would be raising holy hell. Wouldn't you?
KRISTOL: Well, no....
SMITH: Wouldn't you, Bill? If you believed that this isn't working...
KRISTOL: No. They do..they're doing..They think they're doing the best the military strategy
SMITH: Do you think they think that, Bill, really?
KRISTOL: I think they, I think so.
SMITH: Because you don't think so, you just said so.
Ok, so we're losing - what we're doing isn't working, so his solution is to do more of it and enrage the Iraqi people even more severely by increasing our presence? Again, what about the Iraqi's own forces? As Joe Biden pointed out on Face the Nation this morning, we have a combined force of 600,000 troops in the area - and we are still losing ground. Naturally Kristol think all we need to do is send more - and take even more casualties. Terrific.KRISTOL: Well, I've been critical of them. I think they should send more troops, but other people differ. I think Bush is going to reconsider when he thinks uh..after he gets through this election here. I wish he would have reconsidered six months ago. I urged him to six months ago. He chose not to. But to be fair to him, to be fair to him I think he is doing what he thinks is his best for the country and I think he is right, that the alternative of somehow pulling down wouldn't help. And incidentally, for the mothers and fathers who have kids there my solution does not...does not... decrease the chance of casualties. I'm willing to.. I think we may have to take more casualties there.
SMITH: To win! But what they keep saying is they want to win. And yet you talk to soldiers and captains and colonels who come home or who talk to you on the phone or who send you an email and they say, "Look! We win individual battles. We leave the individual battle and go to the next town and the insurgents come back." It's happening in Afghanistan right now!
KRISTOL: I agree.
Yeah, like I said "Whack-a-mole!". So much for that "things are going swimmingly meme".
SMITH: The Taliban had been wiped out. Now the poppy production is up to supplying 92% because we don't have enough people there. So how fair is it to the people of this country and to the world to be in a process that you know is not working, to know what the solutions are, yet because of the election system and the political process you allow a losing thing to continue?
KRISTOL: Well I think we can make it a winning thing, I think Bush will make it a winning thing, It's a democracy. It has drawbacks.
Comment from Dkos - [Wha?!?! STOP THE TAPE! WTF does that mean? Bush could fight the war better if this wasn't a democracy?]
Yeah, sure don't you remember ""I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
I agree on Afghanistan,incidentally, that's another place where we're going to have to increase troop levels in the next few weeks.
SMITH: Yeah, but when?
KRISTOL: Soon.
Yeah, any minute after the elections.
The weird thing about this is that nothing, I mean absolutely nothing goes on Fox News without having political overtones - and the signals that seem to be being sent here are - frighteningly enough - that the Bush Administration has been too soft on Iraq so far. Just as Bill O'Reilly has argued we need to treat Iraq the same way that Saddam did, these people are neccesarily calling for an end to the war. Not hardly, but at least they realize that something needs to change. I would argue that since our forces our one of the main inspiration for the violence, with over a hundred attacks occuring each day - what we really need is a effective Force Transition Plan.SMITH: We'll see. Bill Kristol, good of you to come.
KRISTOL: Thank's Shep.
The job needs to be done, someone needs to stand up against the violence - and the proper solution to that is for the Iraqi's own forces to do it. Instead of under training and under equiping their forces, we need to work vigorously with the Iraqi government - and yes, create deadlines, goals and benchmarks for improvement - to bring their forces online and gradually unit by unit transition their people in to replace ours. It's not a matter of our people "Cutting and Running", creating an effective Iraqi Army IS Mission Accomplished.
If we aren't doing that, then Shepard is correct, all were doing is condeming our soldiers and the Iraqi people to an endless meatgrinder.
Vyan
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