The Supremacist Radical (Terry Jones) vs the Interfaith Moderate (Faisal Rauf)

Despite what Gen. Petreaus says about this proposed Hate Crime of burning the Qur'an - and make no mistake It Is A Hate Crime - this wackjob actually thinks he's defending America? He's defending Christianity? Just imagine if they were planning to Burn a Cross on their front lawn? (Which the SCOTUS determined was not a protected form of free speech in 2004)? Burning a Flag is a political statement, but burning someone elses religious text is an act of Hate and Terrorism. He's an embarrassment, he's a Hate-Monger and nothing more.



Attorney General Eric Holder has come down hard against this action, considering how anti-mosque protests have already emboldened the Taliban and helped their recruiting efforts.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Attorney General Eric Holder is calling the planned burning of the Quran at a Florida church idiotic and dangerous. The Justice Department confirms that Holder made the remarks in a meeting with religious leaders to discuss recent attacks on Muslims and mosques around the United States.

The first video is good, but it's actually during the second portion of the interview that Andersen really nails this apparent scam artist and American Talibani. Full Transcript.

COOPER: Sir, on -- on your Web site -- on television, you say one thing. On your Web site and in your preachings, you say something else.

You say there should be no Muslims allowed to immigrate to the United States and you say there no new mosques should be allowed to be built in the United States.

Do you deny saying that on your Web site and in your preaching?

JONES: No, I do not deny that.

COOPER: OK.

JONES: That is my -- that is -- that is my opinion, but my opinion does not supersede the Constitution.

My opinion, we would be better off if we paid more attention. We would be better off if we really checked the Muslims that immigrated here. We see that problem very clearly in Europe. That is my opinion. That is not the Constitution.

So, I stand to the Constitution, that they have freedom of worship and freedom to build mosques.

He doesn't just oppose building Park51 near the Ground Zero site, he opposes building Any mosque in the U.S., or even allowing any Muslim to enter the U.S. So is he a bigot?

COOPER: Do you consider yourself a bigot?

JONES: No, not at all. And we do not consider our message a message of hate.

It is -- it is a clear message of warning. We have tried to make it very, very clear that, according to the United States Constitution, Muslims are more than welcome in America. They are welcome to worship. They are welcome to build mosques.

We have made that very, very clear. I understand they're not in agreement. And they're mad and angry. They're -- they're -- they're insulted because we are burning the Koran, but they should, indeed, be with us on the fact that radical Islam is bad. It is evil. We do not want it in this country.

See, he's not a bigot - he's just against radical Islam - and every mosque in the country, and every Muslim in the country. But he's not "hateful". Nooooo.

Cooper: But I asked about the bigotry, because the definition of a bigot that I just got off Dictionary.com is a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, especially on religion, politics or race.

You do appear to be remarkably intolerant on any ideas other than your own regarding religion.

JONES: We are -- as the Bible teaches, as Jesus teaches, we are intolerant, yes.

COOPER: So, if bigot -- so if being a bigot...

JONES: And the Koran does not...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: So, if being a bigot is being intolerant of anyone else's ideas on religion other than your own, you would -- you would say, yes, you're a bigot?

JONES: We believe there is only one way, and that is Jesus Christ. People have freedom to worship as they please. That is what I said.

People have the "Right" to worship as they please, they should just worship how I say they should. Yea, that would be the definition of Intolerant Bigotry right there.

JONES: Jesus Christ is the only way.

COOPER: You're stating a fact there. But that's not your desire. You don't want Muslims to have freedom to worship in this country. You don't want Muslims to be able to build new mosques here. You don't want more Muslims coming to the United States. Correct?

JONES: That is not correct. And it depends on who you are asking.

COOPER: On your Web site, you say: "Stop all Islamic immigration. You're only coming to this land to take over and try to enforce the Islamic laws upon us." And you say, "Stop building all mosques until churches can be built in Saudi Arabia."

So, you don't want Muslims coming here and you don't want new mosques being built. You're -- I know you're not saying that's the law. Under the Constitution, they can. But you're saying, you don't like that.

JONES: It is my opinion, yes. As I said -- as I said, as a Christian, I wish that all Muslims would get saved. I wish that they would all convert to Christianity, because Christianity is the one and only true religion.

The Koran, in our opinion, is an evil book.

Yeah, that's not bigoted at all. He's only against Radical Islam except that he's thinks the book read and worshiped by all the non-radical Muslim's is "Evil".

JONES: Do you want to know what the Bible says about the Koran?

COOPER: ... to answer the question, I understand. But -- but I'm just asking the question, have you read the Koran?

JONES: I said no. I have read parts of the Koran.

If you add to this book, let him be accursed -- that's what the Bible says about the Koran.

My wife tells me this is quote from St. John the Apostle in Revelations - but it's out of context. John was talking about his own writing - he was talking about Revelations itself which was written around 87 C.E., not the entire Bible which wasn't compiled as a comprehensive book until Emperor Constantine made Christianity the official religion of Rome around 331 C.E., nearly 150 years later.

The Qur'an wasn't even written until 632 C.E., another 300 years later - so how exactly did St. John comment on it 5 centuries previously?

You know who else believes that "everything would be fine if everyone would just convert to his religion"? Osama Bin Laden, that's who.

Contrast this Dangerous Nutball with the actual Imam for Cordoba House/Park 51 who has written an Op/Ed in the NYTimes. Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf is a Sufi, part of an Islamic sect which opposes the extremism of the Sunnis in Al Qaeda or the Shia in Hezbollah, and has operated a Mosque just ten blocks from Ground Zero for the last 28 years.

Our name, Cordoba, was inspired by the city in Spain where Muslims, Christians and Jews co-existed in the Middle Ages during a period of great cultural enrichment created by Muslims. Our initiative is intended to cultivate understanding among all religions and cultures.

I am very sensitive to the feelings of the families of victims of 9/11, as are my fellow leaders of many faiths. We will accordingly seek the support of those families, and the support of our vibrant neighborhood, as we consider the ultimate plans for the community center. Our objective has always been to make this a center for unification and healing.

President Obama and Mayor Michael Bloomberg both spoke out in support of our project. As I traveled overseas, I saw firsthand how their words and actions made a tremendous impact on the Muslim street and on Muslim leaders. It was striking: a Christian president and a Jewish mayor of New York supporting the rights of Muslims. Their statements sent a powerful message about what America stands for, and will be remembered as a milestone in improving American-Muslim relations.

Quite a few people, like David Gergen and even Newt Gingrich have argued that if they want to truly generate "Inter-Faith" with Park 51/Cordoba they should include an Inter-Faith area of Worship. I myself had argued that this is the only compromise they should seriously consider. Well, THEY ALREADY DO.

At Cordoba House, we envision shared space for community activities, like a swimming pool, classrooms and a play space for children. There will be separate prayer spaces for Muslims, Christians, Jews and men and women of other faiths. The center will also include a multifaith memorial dedicated to victims of the Sept. 11 attacks.

So why should this be moved? It already is a inter-faith and multi-faith worship center - not a "Victory Mosque". It contains a Memorial to 9/11 open to people of all faiths. So the argument is that this memorial is TOO CLOSE to the actual 9/11, or that the fact that in includes Muslims as well as everyone else should be a reason that is "too insensitive" to the victims of 9/11 when many of those victims were Muslim too?

Talk about the opposite of Intolerance and bigotry.

Vyan

FBI Found Maj Hasan was NOT a Terrorist!

Ok, this needs to be said and said loudly. The FBI and Joint Terrorism Task Force Both Investigated Maj Nidal Hasan and found he was NOT a Terrorist.

The major, a 39-year-old US-born Muslim of Palestinian descent, was scrutinised by an FBI-led joint terrorism task force because of a series of e-mails between December 2008 and early 2009 with Mr al-Awlaki.

US officials said the content of the e-mail messages did not advocate or threaten violence, and was consistent with Maj Hasan's research for his job as an army psychiatrist, part of which involved post-traumatic stress disorder stemming from US combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

This of course is not how the Right Wing Wants to See it.

Right now Michelle Malkin is on a anti-secret jihadi crudade: The "enemy" is everywhere - Everywhere! Be afriad!

Blind diversity=death. Here's a reminder of the GOP's own P.C. jihadi-coddling problem. Face it: (link removed)

P.C. festered under W. Continues under O. Jihadi influences in military, FBI, prisons, fire depts: (link removed)

The FBI didn't see it that way (Via the Weekly Standard)

Major Hasan came to the attention of the FBI in December 2008 as part of an unrelated investigation being conducted by one of our Joint Terrorism Task Forces (JTTFs). JTTFs are FBI-led, multi-agency teams made up of FBI agents, other federal investigators—including those from the Department of Defense—and state and local law enforcement officers.

Investigators on the JTTF reviewed certain communications between Major Hasan and the subject of that investigation and assessed that the content of those communications was consistent with research being conducted by Major Hasan in his position as a psychiatrist at the Walter Reed Medical Center. Because the content of the communications was explainable by his research and nothing else derogatory was found, the JTTF concluded that Major Hasan was not involved in terrorist activities or terrorist planning. Other communications of which the FBI was aware were similar to the ones reviewed by the JTTF.

The fact that the FBI found that his contacting this Imam was completely innocent and consistent with his actual JOB is something that rightwing simply can not fathom and understand. If he emailed the guy, he must have Supported the guys Agenda Right?

Two of 9-11 hijackers had visited al-Awlaki's former Mosque in Virginia, to the Standard this makes him an "al Qeada recruiter". My thinking is that these guys had been recruited into al Qeada a long time before they reached Virginia, and blaming this Imam for aiding and abetting 9-11 is like blaming Mohummad Atta's Landlord and Green Grocer.

Awlaki is an active al Qaeda cleric and recruiter. Undoubtedly, that’s why he was being investigated in December 2008 in the first place. Moreover, Awlaki and his followers assisted three 9/11 hijackers here on U.S. soil before their day of terror and, according to the Congressional Joint Inquiry into the September 11 attacks, Awlaki was a “spiritual advisor” for at least two of them.

Why would a member of the U.S. military contact a major al Qaeda ideologue to discuss his research? The only way that could be justifiable is if that American serviceman was collecting intelligence on Awlaki and his operations. But there is no evidence that this was the case here.

No, that's not the only reason.

Maj Hasan had attended the same Virginia Mosque, hence his connection to al-Awlaki - he didn't just contact him out of the blue - and was apparently working on a project that addressed the issues and stresses that were uniquely placed on Muslim fighting as members of the U.S. Armed Forces - and how those stresses might threaten the force.

in late June 2007, he stood before his supervisors and about 25 other mental health staff members and lectured on Islam, suicide bombers and threats the military could encounter from Muslims conflicted about fighting in the Muslim countries of Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a copy of the presentation obtained by The Washington Post.

"It's getting harder and harder for Muslims in the service to morally justify being in a military that seems constantly engaged against fellow Muslims," he said in the presentation.

The title of Hasan's PowerPoint presentation was "The Koranic World View As It Relates to Muslims in the U.S. Military." It consisted of 50 slides. In one slide, Hasan described the presentation's objectives as identifying "what the Koran inculcates in the minds of Muslims and the potential implications this may have for the U.S. military."

He also sought to "describe the nature of the religious conflicts that Muslims" who serve in the U.S. military may have and to persuade the Army to identify these individuals.

To further emphasize this point, Hasan himself was the victim of anti-Muslim harrasment.

In mid-August, just a few weeks after moving to Killeen, Hasan had a run-in with a soldier living in apartment No. 12. One night after he had been drinking, John Van de Walker scraped a key along the full length of the passenger's side of Hasan's car. Then he removed and destroyed a bumper sticker that read, "Allah is Love," according to several residents, including live-in managers John and Alice Thompson.

Van de Walker had recently returned from service in Iraq and was distraught that his neighbor was a Muslim, Alice Thompson said. Shortly after the incident, Van de Walker's girlfriend, Jenni, came to visit Alice Thompson.

"I can't believe what John just did," Thompson recalled the woman saying. "John just keyed Number Nine's car. I told him, 'You're back from Iraq now, and you can't be doing anything that pops in your head like that.' "

Hasan filed a police report, but neighbors said he did not seem too bothered. According to the Associated Press, Van de Walker was arrested Oct. 21 and was charged with criminal mischief.

As of today ABC News has reports that there were more contacts than just one former Virginia Cleric that the FBI had been tracking. The nature of these contacts is not described as being any different than those that were already known, looked at, and considered innocent - yet that hasn't stopped the FEAR BRIGADE from starting a finger-pointing storm between the FBI and the Army as to who should have told who about what and when...

The FBI said it turned over the information to the Army, but Defense Department officials today denied that. One military investigator on a joint terror task force with the FBI was shown the e-mails, but they were never forwarded in a formal way to more senior officials at the Pentagon, and the Army did not learn of the contacts until after the shootings.

I may be speculating here, but I suspect this information wasn't forwarded - or if it was forwarded, was ignored - because there was nothing remarkable about it.

Even the Car Keying incident doesn't seem to be an easy source for Hasan's ultimate explosion as he stated afterward "It's (Ramadan) a time to forgive everybody who's done wrong against you".

Easy answers seem elusive and lazy analysis and reporting is clearly insufficient to completely explain what occurred at Ft Hood and why.

Having a conversation with someone doesn't make you a Terrorist.

The FBI was aware of his contacts and didn't find them indicative of someone who appeared to be growing radically anti-American, and from the content of his Presentation at Walker Reed this seems consistent - he was warning the Army of the potentially danger of disaffected Muslim Soldiers who were faced with a growing internal conflict with fighting against other Muslims, he had been dealing with those soldiers who were suffering Post Traumatic Stress and in some ways he himself was vulnerable to acquiring their stress through such repeated and close contact with the most difficult elements of their transition back to civilian life.

He didn't want to be deployed.

He had allegedly wanted to leave the Army although there is no evidence they he attempted to apply for "Consciencious Objector" status - he believed and stressed in his presentation that Muslim soldiers should have that option, in order to avoid "adverse effects" for the military itself.

More and more this appears to me more like a case of "Workplace violence" (similar to the Shooting Spree in 1995 at Ft Bragg which (corrected) killed 1 and wounded 18 people) than some type of "Sleeper Agent" or the work of a "Terrorist Sympathizer".

Earlier this year the Shooter, Sgt William Kruetzer, was sentenced to life in prison.

Kreutzer was convicted of one specification of premeditated murder, 18 specifications of attempted murder, one specification of violating a general order by transporting weapons on post, and one specification of larceny of government property (theft of government ammunition).

The charges stem from the Oct. 27, 1995, shooting at Towle Stadium of members of the 2nd Brigade of the 82nd Airborne Division as they were conducting morning physical training. Kreutzer hid in the tree line and picked off the Soldiers one by one until three Special Forces members were able to sneak up and tackle him.

In 1995 the World Trade Center had already been bombed, and the Murrah Federal Building had been destroyed. Was anyone asking then if Sgt Kreutzer was a Terrorist Sympathizer? I don't think so.

Is the race to turn Maj. Hasan into a "Terrorist" on flimsy insufficient evidece anything more than profiling? Calling his names and trying to jin up fear and paranoia of other "sleeper agents" in our military doesn't change the fact that he is still (an accused) Mass Murderer!

Isn't that bad enough?

We don't really know why - anymore than we know why Kreutzer did what he did, or other shooters such as the one at Virginia Tech who killed 32 People did what he did. We may never really know, but we really don't need to MAKE SHIT UP!

Vyan

(H/T to Randi Rhodes for the Links)

Update: I don't have a link for this yet, but Randi during her show also talked about the supposed "comparing a soldier who jumps on a grenade to a suicide bomber" post which has been mentioned. She read the post and what it actually said, assuming it wasn't some other Nidal Hasan who posted it was that the Koran does NOT condone suicide or suicide bombings. That in order to be considered a "Martyr" one has to fight your enemies, and kill them, until they kill you. A Suicide bombing is killing themselves, not being killed by their enemy. In contrast a soldier throwing himself on a grenade IS a Martyr, but not committing suicide. He also stated (at some point) that no form if Islam supported the use of suicide bombings that he could find - except al Qeada.

Update II Found it (maybe)

NidalHasan scribbled: There was a grenade thrown amongs a group of American soldiers. One of the soldiers, feeling that it was to late for everyone to flee jumped on the grave with the intention of saving his comrades. Indeed he saved them. He inentionally took his life (suicide) for a noble cause i.e. saving the lives of his soldier. To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause. Scholars have paralled this to suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers. If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard that would be considered a strategic victory. Their intention is not to die because of some despair. The same can be said for the Kamikazees in Japan. They died (via crashing their planes into ships) to kill the enemies for the homeland. You can call them crazy i you want but their act was not one of suicide that is despised by Islam. So the scholars main point is that "IT SEEMS AS THOUGH YOUR INTENTION IS THE MAIN ISSUE" and Allah (SWT) knows best.

Ok, so actually what he said was that neither of them are committing "Suicide", one is attempting to save their comrades while the other attempting to kill their enemies - but neither's intent is simply to die. That doesn't make them equivalent or equal and he doesn't suggest that they are.

Update III ABC News is now adding gasoline to this bonfire by reporting that Al Awlaki is connected and inspired several other Terrorist Attacks including the attack on Fort Dix.

In addition to his contacts with Major Nidal Hasan, the radical American cleric, Anwar al Awlaki, served as an inspiration for men convicted in terror plots in Toronto and Fort Dix, New Jersey, according to government officials and court records reviewed by ABCNews.com.

Despite his ties to other plots, including the one against the Army post at Fort Dix, some 20 e-mails between Awlaki and Major Hasan were dismissed as "innocent" by a military investigator working on the FBI's Joint Terror Task Force in Washington, D.C.

IMO This is really bad reporting - (but after Path to 9-11 and how ABC Swiftboated Obama with Reverend Wright, I'm not surprised) - first of all they don't actually provide the details of what those links and "inspirations" where between Awlaki and these other individuals. His former mosque in Virginia is one of the largest on the East Coast - so it's likely quite a few people attended it. Yes, It's clear he's somewhat radical, seeing as he has praised Hasan's attack - but what's he got to do with Fort Dix? You could make exactly the same kind of "inspiration" arguements about Glenn Beck and the Holocaust Museum Shooter or Bill O'Reilly and Scott Roeder.

On this point- how he inspired them exactly - they fail to explain.

They also stick quotes around the FBI's assessment that the Hasan's contacts with him were "innocent" completely absent any evidence that they *weren't* innocent.

This is guilt by association, and although I'm not saying it's not possible there is some connection the FBI completely missed and fumbled - it's also not credible either, yet.

Vyan

Obama's Ground-breaking Cairo Speech

MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show - 4 June 2009: The 3rd Rail - Obama's game-changing speech in Egypt.

RICHARD ENGEL of NBC NEWS DESCRIBING REACTION: "A lot of people in Kabul and across the Islamic world simply had their mouths open when they were listening to this speech. They couldn't believe what they were hearing. They had not heard this kind of language from an American president."

RACHEL MADDOW: "President Obama today spoke frankly and directly about the United States, about our closest allies, about our friends in the region and about our enemies. He said things that American politicians never say in public, especially American presidents, especially while they're overseas, especially while they're in the Middle East, especially all in one speech. It was like he grabbed onto the third rail and decided he was not going to let go."

1. Condemns Israeli Settlements
2. Denounces Arab Attacks
3. Labels Iraq "War of Choice"
4. Admits U.S. Role in Iran Coup
5. Dismisses 9/11 Conspiracies
6. Attacks Holocaust Deniers
7. Criticizes Arab "Democracies"
8. Admits U.S. Tortured

Vyan