Jack Bauer Denounces Torture

Jack Bauer, the Patron Saint of the Republican Wingnut Torturers Party, argues *against* his own philosophy of "Do whatever it takes to save lives" in this sequence from the Season 7 Finale of "24".

By pointing out to his protege FBI Agent Walker that...

"You took an oath, you made a promise to uphold the law. You cross that line it always starts out with a small step, before you know it you're running as fast as you can in the wrong direction just to justify why you started in the first place.These laws were written by much smarter men than me, and in the end I know that these laws have to be more important than the 15 people on the bus... I know this. In my mind I know that's right, I just don't think my heart could ever have lived with that."

This is an argument that should be thrown in the face of people like Liz Cheney and her dear ole' dad. Once you cross the line of the law, you spend all your time trying to justify that action - running at full speed in the wrong direction.

In Episode 1 Bauer had a completely different view as he was grilled by Senator Mayer:

BAUER: When I am activated, when I am brought into a situation, there is a reason and that reason is to complete the objectives of my mission at all costs. [...]

For a combat soldier the difference between success and failure is your ability to adapt to your enemy. The people that I deal with, they don’t care about your rules. ... In answer to your question, am I above the law? No, sir. I am more than willing to be judged by the people you claim to represent. I will let them decide what price I should pay. Now please do not sit there with that smug look on your face and expect me to regret the decisions that I have made because, sir, the truth is I don’t.

In this confrontation Bauer came off defiant and strongly challenged whether the law mattered when lives where at stake. His little speech was met with Cheers and Praise on Fox News.



I wonder what they'd think of his latest statements on the subject?

All during this Season the issue of Torture has been not simply shown, but repeatedly challenged particularly by FBI Agent Larry Moss and by Senate Mayer. The reason for this change in tone might be the departure of series creator Joel Surnow who is an admit right-wing "nut" - or it might have to do with a promise made by the Producers to the Commandant of West Point to "Tone Down the Torture". Either way, there has been a difference as Jack's practices have faced some rather stiff push-back.

At one point Mayer and the President Discussed Torture:

Mayer: Well, there's nothing "Grey" about Jack Bauer. The man has committed atrocities. Prisoners have died in is custody.

Taylor: Mr. Bauer has served under Three Presidents, not just me.

Mayer: Is it any less repugnant if it's authorized at the highest level? The State of War is not a Blank Check for the President or for anyone.

Taylor: OH, Don't Lecture me Senator. I am well aware of the limits of my power.

Mayer: Due respect, Madam President. Your power is great, just be careful that you use it to send the right message.

Taylor: All I'm asking you do is excuse Mr. Bauer as a witness. It's not a message, it's an expression of gratitude for what's he's done today.

Mayer: You're asking me to excuse him as a target of the investigation. And the message is clear: under certain cirmcumstances you elieve his methods are acceptable.

Taylor: Some would argue that they are.

Mayer: And they would be WRONG! Under any circumstances, military or moral standard. America has been down this road before Madame President. You yourself called it a "national tragedy".

Taylor: It was a tragedy, I still believe that.

Mayer:Pardon Jack Bauer and you're telling every interogattor in the field that it's "Open Season" again.

This is exactly the point, from all we've seen from the like of Liz Cheney - their arguments show strongly that THEY WILL TORTURE AGAIN. As soon as we have another Right-Wing Leaning President, they will unpack all their torture excuses and be right back in business.

Later Bauer and Mayer argued again face-to-face.

Mayer: You're done Bauer, your finished.

Bauer: He was talking, whatever is going to happen is happening now it's on your conscience.

Mayer: My conscience has a lot less to answer for than yours.

...

Mayer: Madame President I don't care if his source is the blessed virgin Mary nothing justifies what went on in this room.

Taylor: But what if he's right? What if it means we could save lives?

Mayer: Look at that (points to the bloody and battered Burnett) and tell me it's not barbarism? Is that something you can live with?

Bauer: Earlier today two airplanes were brought down - is THAT something you can live with?

Mayer: You're reprehensible Bauer.

Bauer: AND YOU SIR ARE WEAK - Unwiling and Unable to Look Evil in the Eye and DEAL WITH IT!,

This is the true face of the right wing, they are strong and civil libertarians are weak little cowards, who don't have the stomach to do what must be done and will consequently leave our country vulnerable to attack. It's exactly what you hear over and over again said about Obama's closing of GITMO and banning Water-Boarding. Over and over they say "We NEED these tools" because in their mind nothing else works.

Except that it does.

Even in the midst of "24" the truth that "harsh tactics" aren't the only options slips out... in this sequence Bauer and Chloe track down Tony Almeida using his cell phone - something I strongly argued could have and should have been done previously to locate Col Dubaku, instead of threatening to kill the innocent wife and child of a rogue Secret Service Agent. They manage to capture Almieda using smarts not braun, and even after they capture him while Jack is trying to beat the information out of him - Janeane Garofalo's character figures out exactly what they need to know faster than Jack can get answers from Tony, even showing up Chloe O'Brien in the process.



Even in there own show - Torture doesn't always work, and if it doesn't work while good LEGAL police work do - there's simply NO EXCUSES left for it.

As has been documented by Human Rights First, the constant inaccurate information that has come from many shows for decades - not just "24" - the kind of "uber macho" view we often see repeated by clueless politicians has had a direct effect on the actions of our soldiers in the field, and not a good one.




In their final talk, Bauer and Mayer ultimate had a meeting of the minds...

Mayer: At the hearing this morning you said you had "no regrets" about what you've done, but what I saw was a man full of regret.

Bauer: Of course I have regrets Senator. I regret losing my famlly. My wife was murdered because I was responsible for protecting David Palmer during an assasination attempt. (Actually she was murdered as blowback from a busted black-ops attack led by Bauer in Bosnia) My daughter can't even look at me (Which might have a bit to do with Jack cutting off her boyfriends right ARM!) Everyday I look in the eyes of men, women and children knowing that at any moment their lives might be deemed "expendable" in an effort to protect the greater good. I regret every decision and mistake I might have made that resulted in the loss (of innocent life). You know what I regret the most? It's that this world even needs someone like me (IT DOESN'T!)

Mayer: So you think I'm naive to believe we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard of conduct?

Bauer: It doesn't even matter what I think, you just need to understand that things get a lot messier where I work than where you work on the hill.

Mayer: What you've lost Mr. Bauer is tragic, what you've been compelled to do in the name of saving innocent life is tragic. Sometimes we need to incur the most horrible losses in order to uphold the ideals that this country is founded on - how can we presume to lead the world unless we set an example?

Bauer: You make it sound so simple.

Mayer: Maybe it's simpler than you think, maybe all the things you've seen and all the things you've done have clouded your vision.

It's probably this conversation that helps lead to Bauer final conversation with Walker - but in the end Bauer's words to Walker have the opposite effect from deterence and she goes on to commit another act of Torture at the end of the episode while Bauer lays in a Coma - "For the Greater Good".



Even though anything she learns would be inadmissible in any court and her actions would guarantee an acquittal for the victim just like a recent Gitmo detainee had all charges dropped because the Judge determined - he was *Tortured*!

Although this may seem to be a "selfless" act, just as many of Bauer's - it's also pointless and fruitless.

This is the FBI Agent - Agent Hubbard from "The Seige", one for more like Ali Soufan who faced this exact scenario in regards to the treatment of Abu Zubaydah.



This is the argument we see going on constantly in our nation, between the President and the former Vice President, between pundits and talk show hosts.

This is a fight we simply CAN NOT AFFORD not to finally get right.

Vyan

Primetime Torture: 24 Turning a Corner? Maybe...

24 - Season 7 - 9:00 PM - 10:00 PM


A funny thing happened in the latest episode of "24" - which Human Rights First calls an example of Primetime Torture - someone may have finally Talked Jack Bauer Down...maybe.

As I discussed in my last diary some would argue why bother with torture on a mere TV Show - however people like Army Interrogator Tony Lagouranis that in the absense of clear direction from their leadership - our troops began making up their interrogation techniques on the fly, and many of their ideas came directly from shows like "24".

Silly though it may seem, the show "24" is indeed part of our national debate on torture particular as people such as Glenn Beck, Laura Ingraham and Cal Thomas constantly refer to Bauer as justifications for actions taken by the Bush Administration.

In the past Bauer's character - the right-wing poster boy for extreme measures - has argued that "Either you do what is neccesary or (innocent people suffer)." He's said that those who don't agree with him are "WEAK - Unwilling and Unable to Look Evil in the Eye and DEAL WITH IT!" - and as a result practically anything he does is therefore Justified.

This of course sounds exactly like Dick Cheney.

KING: I’d like to simply ask you, yes or no, by taking these steps do you believe the President of the United States has made Americans less safe?

CHENEY: I do. I think those programs were absolutely essential to the success we enjoyed of being able to collect the intelligence that let us defeat all further attempts to launch attacks against the United States since 9/11. I think that’s a great success story. ... President Obama campaigned against it all across the country. And now he is making some choices that, in my mind, will, in fact, raise the risk to the American people of another attack.

You see, it was "Neccesary" - it was "Justified" - we HAD to do it. Obama HAS to Keep doing it. Just like St. Jack always says. Even if the Red Cross says it was clearly, absolutely Torture,

The classified report, Danner wrote, "tells a certain kind of story, a narrative of what happened at the 'the black sites' and a detailed description, by those on whom they were practiced, of what the President of the United States described to Americans as an 'alternative set of procedures.'" The accounts -- which the report concludes are so strikingly similar as to make fabrication extremely unlikely, if not impossible -- offer "a harrowing view of conditions at the secret prisons, where prisoners were told they were being taken 'to the verge of death and back.'" As the Washington Post described, "during interrogations, the captives were routinely beaten, doused with cold water and slammed head-first into walls. Between sessions, they were stripped of clothing, bombarded with loud music, exposed to cold temperatures, and deprived of sleep and solid food for days on end. Some detainees described being forced to stand for days, with their arms shackled above them, wearing only diapers."

The real irony here is that the foes that have framed Bauer for murder, are exactly like him! 8 minutes into the first section Jon Voight, playing the head of a Blackwater-like U.S. mercenary group makes the following speach as he commits himself to unleashing a deadly WMD attack on U.S. Soil.

Voight: Mr Seton, I get no pleasure from the knowledge that people will die at our hands. One single soul - The loss of one soul is tragic to me, let alone the numbers we're talking about - but do not forget that every war must have collateral damage, and that what we're doing is fundamentally and absolutely neccesary.

Sounds kinda familiar.

But this week Bauer's techniques and arguements have come back to bite him - big time. His attempted interrogation of a Congressional Staffer led to the target's death (not at Jack's hand). Jack is on the run for murder. He's managed to get Chloe Sullivan arrested for Obstruction of Justice by asking her to tamper with evidence, he's led FBI Agent Renee Walker astray with his arguments and now she's been suspended from duty.

It's not until he comes face to face with the U.S. Senator (Kurtwood Smith) whose been trying to restore the rule of law, revise the War Crimes Act and send Bauer to PRISON that he finally begins to see - just a glimmer - of how far wrong he may have gone off track. (Scene begins after the third break, 29 minutes into the episode)

Mayer: At the hearing this morning you said you had "no regrets" about what you've done, but what I saw was a man full of regret.

Bauer: Of course I have regrets Senator. I regret losing my famlly. My wife was murdered because I was responsible for protecting David Palmer during an assasination attempt. (Actually she was murdered as blowback from a busted black-ops attack led by Bauer in Bosnia) My daughter can't even look at me (Which might have a bit to do with Jack cutting off her boyfriends right ARM!) Everyday I look in the eyes of men, women and children knowing that at any moment their lives might be deemed "expendable" in an effort to protect the greater good. I regret every decision and mistake I might have made that resulted in the loss (of innocent life). You know what I regret the most? It's that this world even needs someone like me (IT DOESN'T!)

Mayer: So you think I'm naive to believe we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard of conduct?

Bauer: It doesn't even matter what I think, you just need to understand that things get a lot messier where I work than where you work on the hill.

Mayer: What you've lost Mr. Bauer is tragic, what you've been compelled to do in the name of saving innocent life is tragic. Sometimes we need to incur the most horrible losses in order to uphold the ideals that this country is founded on - how can we presume to lead the world unless we set an example?

Bauer: You make it sound so simple.

Mayer: Maybe it's simpler than you think, maybe all the things you've seen and all the things you've done have clouded your vision.

THAT RIGHT THERE is exactly the point. It's just what Bauer has failed to understand all this time. Let me again point out that it was a failed (illegal) black-bag opperation to assasinate Slobadon Milosevic's right-hand man (Victor Drazen) that instigated personal retaliation against David Palmer (who authorized the mission) as well as Bauer (who led it) and his family. Even on "24", from the beginning our extreme measures have been a catalyst for the extreme measures of others, and Bauer has been blind to it this entire time.

Just as Real Life Interrogators such as Matthew Alexander have explained our using criminal methods in Iraq have Caused Greater U.S. Casualties. Causing people unneccesarily suffer and die, even in order to save other people - is NEVER justified. Committing a crime to stop crime still means - there was a CRIME! Yes, it is simple - but that doens't mean it's EASY! The right thing is often the HARD thing do.

After finding the evidence he's looking for and discussing the specifics of what Jon Voight's company is probably up to - Mayer and Bauer again begin to discuss the future possibilities. (Section 3 - 34 Minutes into episode)

Mayer: You're obviously on to something, maybe I can help you find the evidence you need to prove your case.

Bauer: Starkwood infiltrated the White house. They'll come after you.

Mayer: We'll keep the circle small, it's time you started trusting the institutions that you've sacrifice so much to protect.

Bauer: Trust isn't my greatest asset.

Mayer: Son, you have to start somewhere.

::SPOILER ALERT::

Unfortunately immediately after this scene Mayer takes three bullets to the chest, and Bauer is on the run again - but before he's gone Mayer clearly makes the point that what Bauer is doing, and he's been doing - ISN'T NECCESARY. And frankly if it's acceptable to let people suffer and die, then maybe it's better to allow that to happen on the basis of some kind of PRINCIPLE.

Let's just suppose for second that Cheney is right, maybe we will be hit again if Obama stops the various extreme interrogation and illegal wiretap programs - I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT - but let's take that point. As the President's daughter (who'se played by an actress who had a regular role in the Post-Apocalypic CBS Show "Jericho" where yet again a Blackwater-like private army and corrupt corporation use WMD to take over the U.S.) argues in another part of the episode, those people who we may lose - while standing firmly behind our ideals - would be THE REAL HEROES - not someone like Bauer who is little different than the people he's fighting against.

It's well past time we started demanding that America truly live up to it's values - fulfill the promise of American potential - and stop under any and all circumstances accepting the kinds of sadistic rationizations coming from either Cheney or Bauer.

They're time is done.

Now, I actually doubt the show will begin to change direction, even though the producers promised Human Rights First that it would. This is probably just a momentary aberration from their ongoing campaign of sadism - but it does offer, for once, a credible opposing arguement directly to those - like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh - who've been swallowing Jack's drivel for so many years. There IS another way besides deliberate brutality, really and truly there is.

Vyan

Primetime Torture to Gitmo: The Deadly Connection

Human Rights First has produced a 14-minute movie featuring interrogation experts and trainers who all support the argument that Hollywood via shows such as "24", "Alias" and "Lost" have been bombarding the American public with a vicious, poisonous lie.

The idea the Torture is EVER "Heroic" or effective.



Psst It's NOT!

There's a debate and an argument going on in this country concerning the issue of Torture and War Crimes. On the one had you have those who believe the U.S. has an absolute obligation to honor it's own laws and treaties and abide by the Geneva Conventions and the U.N. Convention against Torture.

Geneva states "There Will be NO AFFRONTS TO PERSONAL DIGNITY" against detainees.

The UN Torture Conventions says:

No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political in stability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture. An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.

Neither of these documents leave any wiggle room - there are no "Special Circumstances" - No Exceptions. No MEANS NO! Period.

On the other hand you have people who posted these comments to another HRF video on "24" which call it nothing more than an "Ad for Torture"

-torture and interrogation is ok for terrorists and bad people, to do whatever it takes to make them talk, we dont see you human rights assholes when innocent people die, you only come forward to protect the rights of the worst kinda murderers

-What a bunch of fucking pussies. You're safe because of torture. Never forget that.

-right so.. terrorists are allowed to kill innocent people but we're not allowed to try and stop these attacks from even taking place?

These people sound a lot like George W. Bush.

Bush: I just can't imagine being President without having these techniques when we capture a known killer who has information about the next attack on America

Don't worry - you won't be. Thank God.

Or maybe they sound more like Jack Bauer.

Season 7 Episode 1

BAUER: When I am activated, when I am brought into a situation, there is a reason and that reason is to complete the objectives of my mission at all costs. [...]

For a combat soldier the difference between success and failure is your ability to adapt to your enemy. The people that I deal with, they don’t care about your rules. ... In answer to your question, am I above the law? No, sir. I am more than willing to be judged by the people you claim to represent. I will let them decide what price I should pay. Now please do not sit there with that smug look on your face and expect me to regret the decisions that I have made because, sir, the truth is I don’t.

Yeah, that's a great argument for Jury Nullification there O.J.


Episode 6 (When Jack argues for the kidnapping and threatening of an innocent woman and child to get her suspected traitor Secret Secret Agent husband to cooperate)

Bauer: When are you people going stop thinking everyone else is following your rules- They're NOT!

Because committing acts of terrorism against innocent people is a wonderful way protect innocent people from terrorists - dont'cha know?

Episode 9

Mayer: Madame President I don't care if his source is the blessed virgin Mary nothing justifies what went on in this room.

Taylor: But what if he's right? What if it means we could save lives?

Mayer: Look at that (points to the bloody and battered Burnett) and tell me it's not barbarism? Is that something you can live with?

Bauer: Earlier today two airplanes were brought down - is THAT something you can live with?

Mayer: You're reprehensible Bauer.

Bauer: AND YOU SIR ARE WEAK - Unwilling and Unable to Look Evil in the Eye and DEAL WITH IT!

Right, all the people stand for Human Rights and against torture - are the "Weak People". The Pussies! It takes a REAL MAN to be a sadistic Dickhead who repeatedly inspires vicious terrorists to hunt and attack him and his country. Thanks for the Tip Jack.

And then there are those who feel "It's Just TV", so don't worry about it.

why are people making a big deal outta this? So 24 shows torture. Deal with the guys who abuse kids and kill innocent people first, then we can talk about a TV show.

-Oh, and another thing assholes, what happened to freedom of speech? Just turn if off if you don't like it, yes? I'm quite sure that's what you'd say if a program happened to be in alignment with something you advocated, but others were criticizing. Fucking hypocrites.

Well, the big deal is that it's not just one show. It's many many shows over a great many years including "Alias" and "Lost" that have perpetuated this MYTH that all you have to do is inflict enough pain and the bad guys will "Crack". All of us have seen that movie, from Dirty Harry to Death Wish to SAW VII, that moment when the bad guys finally says - "ENOUGH, I'll Tell you...I'll TALK!"

We've all seen it, and hardly any of us have stood up and walked out thinking "That's Bullshit". We consider it credible, we think it's plausible - we BUY INTO IT - but it's just a myth, no more valid or real than the idea that a young girl in a short skirt is asking to be raped and murdered by a pedophile - or that the dirty Juden Deserved the Ovens!

Yeah, I went went there, because Nazi Germany is a large part of why Geneva exists. If Bauer was real, by now he'd be a sadistic neo-fascist sociopath - and that's exactly the point. He's a War Criminal.

If we saw a suggestion like those two in a film almost no one (except maybe Bill O'Rielly or Pat Buchanan) would buy it as believable. Yet hardly anyone objects to the idea that "everybody breaks" - and that right there is the challenge that stands before anyone who supports Human Rights and the rule of law. Even people on our side of the argument, are often willing to make excuses and compromises for "Special Circumstance", but just as the UN Torture Convention state - there are no excuses. None. Zero. Even seriously entertaining the suggestion should be completely abhorrent to all of us - yet it's not.

The argument that real people don't take this seriously and don't believe what their seeing on the TV or movie screen is belied by the Real Experience of Interrogators in Iraq.

U.S. Army Interrogator Tony Lagouranis: We were told that the old rules (Geneva) didn't apply anymore and were encouraged by the Pentagon to "Be creative" - so we watched Movies and TV for ideas.

Thanks to Bush, Cheney and the Yoo Memo's all their training and all the rules We're Out the Window!" Here is an Iraq Veteran Interrogator TELLING YOU they took tips directly from shows like "24" (and still I'm sure people will argue that these shows had nothing to do with it even though Lagouranis is clearly saying that IT DID!).

Add this to the words of the interrogator who helped take out the head of Al Qaeda in Iraq - Abu Zarqawi - that Torture Is NEVER Neccessary



No one is suggesting Censorship, nor is simply ignoring a show you don't like or agree with a solution. Sticking our head in the sand does nothing to address the fact that Millions of Americans are being LIED TO and almost no one - NO ONE - in Hollywood is making a rational and responsible effort to get the truth out, even while they repeatedly perpetuate a lie that is costing American lives.

When all anyone hears is one side of the argument - that side wins by default. Ignoring it is tacitly endorsing it.

Contrast how many times you've seen in your own life someone screaming "No - Enough" on TV or a film with how many times you've seen what Alexander is talking about? How many times have you seen Hollywood show someone give a False Confession or bogus information just to make the pain stop the way we received false intelligence information from Ibn Sheilk al Libi and Abu Zubaydah, information which helped send us into pointless war with Iraq?

I've only seen it once that I can recall - on Showtime's Sleeper Cell which IMO was the most honest and accurate program on terrorism ever, but that's hardly enough to counter the cultural juggernaut that Bauer has become. He's practically a national Icon. No one is saying "24" shouldn't be made, or that the creators don't have a First Amendment Right to present their story the way they'd like to - but if that story is based on a LIE - it should be questioned and vigorously challenged. We should always recall that the best of our art is literature isn't simply done in a flashy or stylistic way - it also represent and illuminates some basic human truths, not lies.

Ironically in part 2 of the Human Rights First film some of our real life interrogators do happen to use a piece of Hollywood film making to help them make their point on young soldiers who've already seen years of successful torture - and that piece of film comes from way back in the pre 9-11 days of 1998's The Seige.



What we don't really see is someone like Agent Hubbard on "24" who doesn't wind up looking like and treated like a Coward and a Pussy. Last year the producers of "24" promised to "Tone done the Torture" after a visit from the Commandant of West Point Gen Finnegan, but they haven't, they've simply come up with louder excuses for it. Waiting for Bauer to lose the argument to Agent Moss or Senator Mayer is like expecting Colmes to have ever gotten the better of Hannity. The Shit is RIGGED - "Jack the Superhero" is always right and always wins the fight. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

But then again even on TV sometimes the Hero does lose, like on Season 2 of Sleeper Cell: American Terror when torture fails and the bad guy uses it to play them for a suckers. It's not that you can't do accurate TV addressing terrorism - you can - but only if people refuse to accept and idly stand for BAD MISLEADING TV about terrorism. People need to demand better, but they'll only do that when they realize like Mathew Alexander - THERE IS A BETTER WAY!

Yet Again, (because people really don't seem to get this point) no one is suggesting censorship or a boycott, but even a show like Mythbusters includes a clear disclaimer :"Don't try this at home - Ever."

Maybe at the very least "24" should have a similar disclaimer
; Don't Try this on the Battlefield - EVER!

Vyan

Jack Bauer vs Pat Leahy - To the Pain!

Tomorrow, the Senate is scheduled to begin it's investigation into the illegal activities and War Crimes of the Bush Administration. Last Night, the right wings biggest bestest hero - Jack Bauer - made his case against a Civil Rights defending, War Crimes prosecuting Senator (Not Actually Leahy, but close enough).

24 - 6:00 PM - 7:00 PM


As per usual a terrorist attack is imminent, only One Person knows the key to stopping that attack and only Jack Bauer has the GUTS to get the information and save Americans.

Yeah, right.

Before any of you "24" defenders get on my case and say "Oh, it's just a television show"... let me just remind you of what one of Fox's own excutives say about it and the influence of the shows Right-Wing Co-Creater Joel Surnow. *Via the New Yorker)

Yet David Nevins, the former Fox Television network official who, in 2000, bought the pilot on the spot after hearing a pitch from Surnow and Cochran, and who maintains an executive role in "24," is candid about the show’s core message. "There’s definitely a political attitude of the show, which is that extreme measures are sometimes necessary for the greater good," he says. "The show doesn’t have much patience for the niceties of civil liberties or due process. It’s clearly coming from somewhere. Joel’s politics suffuse the whole show."

The entire point of this show - from DAY ONE - has been to push forward a Right-Wing Agenda under the guise of just "Entertainment".

Yeah, like Rush Limbaugh is just an "Entertainer" too - eh, Michael?

Secondly I'm not an advocate of censorship in any form. I'm an advocate of awareness - "24" is making an argument for the continued existence of a set of policies and practices that America simply CAN'T AFFORD.

I'm making the opposite argument. We need to find Another Way.

If you've followed this season - or any of my posts on this
subject - this episode and the next (which was also broadcast last night) takes Jack right into the White House to confront and torture a suspect, who happens to be the Chief of Staff of a crusading anti-torture Senator. (Note the Irony: The Same guy whose been running the campaign to stop Bauer's tactics - is himself a terrorist. Lesson: Only the bad guys want to stop Jack Bauer - or the Weak.).

In order to keep Burnett from being arrested and asking for a Lawyer - OH HEAVEN FORFEND THE LAWYERS - Jack conspires to have Chloe tamper with evidence and delete his name from a list of suspects. (That's Obstruction of Justice, Tampering With Evidence and Conspiracy - for starters and Jack's just getting warmed up!)

Once he finds his target, Jack uses a simple taser to implement his torture. (Note: Amnesty International has a specific focus on Taser Abuse and an estimated 150 deaths they have caused in the U.S.)

Starting in section 3 - (at 21:48) Senator Mayer debates the President on the subject of Bauer.

Mayer: Let me just remind you that you Madame President, that you supported the effort to ban the use of torture. You campaigned on the promise to reform the intellegence agencies.

President Taylor: These past ten hours Senator, things haven't appeared as "Black and White" as they might appear.

The message here is clear - just as it was stated by Dick Cheney to Rush Limbaugh, once you see for youself your tone will change.

“My guess is once they get here, and they’re faced with some of the same things we are faced with every day, that they will appreciate some of the things we put in place,” the vice president told radio host Rush Limbaugh on his program Monday.

“We did not exceed our Constitutional authority, as some have suggested. But the president believes, and I believe, very deeply in a strong executive [branch].”

Cheney added, “I think the Obama administration is not likely to cede that authority back to the Congress. I think they’ll find that due to the challenges they face, they’ll need all the authority they can muster.”

The "24" Torture Debate Leahy Stand-in Mayer vs Obama/Clinton Stand-in Taylor continued.

Mayer: Well, there's nothing "Grey" about Jack Bauer. The man has committed atrocities. Prisoners have died in is custody.

Taylor: Mr. Bauer has served under Three Presidents, not just me.

Mayer: Is it any less repugnant if it's authorized at the highest level? The State of War is not a Blank Check for the President or for anyone.

Taylor: OH, Don't Lecture me Senator. I am well aware of the limits of my power.

Mayer: Due respect, Madam President. Your power is great, just be careful that you use it to send the right message.

Taylor: All I'm asking you do is excuse Mr. Bauer as a witness. It's not a message, it's an expression of gratitude for what's he's done today.

Mayer: You're asking me to excuse him as a target of the investigation. And the message is clear: under certain cirmcumstances you believe his methods are acceptable.

Taylor: Some would argue that they are.

Mayer: And they would be WRONG! Under any circumstances, military or moral standard. America has been down this road before Madame President. You yourself called it a "national tragedy".

Taylor: It was a tragedy, I still believe that.

Mayer: Pardon Jack Bauer and you're telling every interogattor in the field that it's "Open Season" again.

In the following scene Bauer's interrogation of Burnett takes place. He almost talks, but just as he's about the give up the crucial piece of information - the target - he's interrupted by the President and Senator Mayer. He even defies a Direct Order by the President to Stand Down.

Eventually Bauer and Mayer go head-to-head.

Mayer: You're done Bauer, your finished.

Bauer: He was talking, whatever is going to happen is happening now it's on your conscience.

Mayer: My conscience has a lot less to answer for than yours.

...

Mayer: Madame President I don't care if his source is the blessed virgin Mary nothing justifies what went on in this room.

Taylor: But what if he's right? What if it means we could save lives?

Mayer: Look at that (points to the bloody and battered Burnett) and tell me it's not barbarism? Is that something you can live with?

Bauer: Earlier today two airplanes were brought down - is THAT something you can live with?

Mayer: You're reprehensible Bauer.

Bauer: AND YOU SIR ARE WEAK - Unwilling and Unable to Look Evil in the Eye and DEAL WITH IT!

So this round goes to Bauer, not to Mayer - who is actually correct both legally and morally. But more importantly the arguement that Bauer presents - the one that has been embraced by so many in the Right-Wing - is flat-out-wrong. If you face evil with evil - you've simply created MORE EVIL.

More importantly Jack's arguement - which is long been reflected in the comments of Cheney and even Senator Cornyn (R-Texas) really ARE likely to impact or real life fighting forces and military students at West Point. They already have.

Gary Solis, a retired law professor who designed and taught the Law of War for Commanders curriculum at West Point, told me that he had similar arguments with his students. He said that, under both U.S. and international law, "Jack Bauer is a criminal. In real life, he would be prosecuted." Yet the motto of many of his students was identical to Jack Bauer’s: "Whatever it takes." His students were particularly impressed by a scene in which Bauer barges into a room where a stubborn suspect is being held, shoots him in one leg, and threatens to shoot the other if he doesn’t talk. In less than ten seconds, the suspect reveals that his associates plan to assassinate the Secretary of Defense. Solis told me, "I tried to impress on them that this technique would open the wrong doors, but it was like trying to stomp out an anthill."

This isn't hypothetical - this is REAL. Our new soldiers are Arguing with their instructors on what is and isn't legal - and their source is JACK BAUER.

But the trust is not just that torture is immoral and wrong as Mayer states - it's DOESN'T WORK. The CIA's own Kubark Interrogation Manuals (Which the "24" staff claims to have been using for the last 7 years) actually says this when it comes to using coercive interrogation.

Interrogates who are withholding but feel qualms of guilt and a secret desire to yeild are likely to become intractable if made to endure pain. The reason is that they can interpret the pain as punishment and hence expiation.

Intense pain is likely to produce false confessions, concocted as a means of escaping distress. A time-consuming delay results, while an investigation is conducted and the admissions are proven untrue.

The CIA's own documentation has stated for nearly 30 years that TORTURE DOESN'T WORK AND PRODUCES FALSE INFORMATION - it generates false confessions and wastes valuable time while you verify that information. These techniques employed by the Bush Administariton gave us the false information that Saddam Hussein was aligned with and supply Al Qeada with chemical weapons training (He wasn't), and that he created an amazing set of mobile chemical weapons labs (He Hadn't) and that he still had an active Nuclear Weapons program (He Didn't!)

And the people on "24" know this - they've been told by various experienced interrgators who stated the following to them two years ago.

At the meeting, Cochran demanded to know what the interrogators would do if they faced the imminent threat of a nuclear blast in New York City, and had custody of a suspect who knew how to stop it. One interrogator said that he would apply physical coercion only if he received a personal directive from the President. But Navarro, who estimates that he has conducted some twelve thousand interrogations, replied that torture was not an effective response. "These are very determined people, and they won’t turn just because you pull a fingernail out," he told me. And Finnegan argued that torturing fanatical Islamist terrorists is particularly pointless. "They almost welcome torture," he said. "They expect it. They want to be martyred." A ticking time bomb, he pointed out, would make a suspect only more unwilling to talk. "They know if they can simply hold out several hours, all the more glory—the ticking time bomb will go off!"

In the ticking-time-bomb scenario - time is on the side of the bad guys, all they have to do is stall - or LIE - and they win.

It also should be noted that while Jack is violating multiple federal and international laws doing things "his way" - his estwhile partner FBI Agent Renee Walker is cracking the plot to attack the White House all by herself using nothing more that GOOD DETECTIVE WORK. Maybe there's hope yet - but I still doubt it since Renee still fails. Jack never fails - so Jack must be right and anyone who suggests all the things he's done so far REALLY WERE'NT neccesary are obviously wrong.

In this Panel from "24" at ComicCon excutive producer David Fury specifically talks about the subject of torture on the show. (At 2:58 in this video)

24 - 24 Inside - Episode 3, Part 3


Fury: We bring attention to the subject of torture in a way we've never done before. Where Jack is going to have to deal with efforts emotionally and psychologically in a way that he hasn't before. The fact is we deal with torture and the consequence of it makes it worthwile drama. We're not endorsing torture - but we're exploring it

Exploring?

Anytime you create justifications for a War Crime - You ARE Endorsing it, particularly when you fail to do what Fury claims - address the consequences of your actions. They won't.

Facing the consequences of his actions would send Jack Bauer to the Gas Chamber under the War Crimes Act (18 USC 2441) That's not gonna happen, period.

In the episode following this one the White House is attacked, it's staff, including Senator Mayer, the President and her daughter are taken hostage. NOW THEY GET A FRONT ROW SEAT OF JACK BAUER's Methods.

And naturally Jack will save the day - and get his pardon - and all the rest of the interrogators (and many of our soldiers who are HUGE fans of "24") will certainly get the wrong message (one that I promise you will resonate far more strongly than upcoming Leahy Senate Hearings) - yet again.

Torture Works, you just have to be Strong Enough to do "what's neccesary".

Lord Help us.

Vyan

Jack Bauer Belongs on Tool Academy

There's a new show that premiered this week. It's a show were a bunch of big muscled womanizing lunk heads think they're in competition to become "Mr. Awesome." As it turns out, while they chase the scantily clad girls dangled in front of them, their actual girlfriends are watching every second. They're really on a show called "Tool Academy" and they are the Tools.

After yesterday's revelation that the torture used in Gitmo has ruined the case against the 20th 9-11 hijacker, the real "Tools" appear to be George Bush, Dick Cheney, the entire Right-wing Media and Jack Bauer.

Just watch as they completely spooge over the 24 Season premiere.



In the speech that Billy, Doocy and Rushy find so inspiring Bauer, while being challenged for his treatment of a suspect named Hadib, tightens his jaw and heroically growls the following.

BAUER: When I am activated, when I am brought into a situation, there is a reason and that reason is to complete the objectives of my mission at all costs. [...]

For a combat soldier the difference between success and failure is your ability to adapt to your enemy. The people that I deal with, they don’t care about your rules. ... In answer to your question, am I above the law? No, sir. I am more than willing to be judged by the people you claim to represent. I will let them decide what price I should pay. Now please do not sit there with that smug look on your face and expect me to regret the decisions that I have made because, sir, the truth is I don’t.

OOhh... how masterful.

Most of us who live in the real world know that Jack Bauer is just a character on a tv show - unfortunately some of our governmental leaders over the last 8 years don't seem to know that since they happen to be spouting the exact same ridiculous B.S. as Bauer.

This week Vice President Cheney said when asked about his interrogation program said that ...

"I feel very good about what we did. I think it was the right thing to do,"... it would have been unethical or immoral for us not to" torture detainees

Kinda Baeur-rific, isn't it?

And President Bush? In his final Press Conference he said.

"I'm in the Oval Office and I am told that we have captured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and the professionals believe he has information necessary to secure the country. So I ask what tools are available for us to find information from him and they gave me a list of tools...

{We }"got legal opinions before any decision was made." Bush insisted that torturing Mohammed produced "good information" that "helped save lives on American soil."

That's Baeur-tastic - except for one little detail - shit didn't happen that way.

The guys in the CIA say they didn't get jack crap from Mohammed after he was tortured.

As for K.S.M. himself, who (as Jane Mayer writes) was waterboarded, reportedly hung for hours on end from his wrists, beaten, and subjected to other agonies for weeks, Bush said he provided “many details of other plots to kill innocent Americans.” K.S.M. was certainly knowledgeable. It would be surprising if he gave up nothing of value. But according to a former senior C.I.A. official, who read all the interrogation reports on K.S.M., “90 percent of it was total fucking bullshit.” A former Pentagon analyst adds: “K.S.M. produced no actionable intelligence. He was trying to tell us how stupid we were.”

Mission Accomplished Khallid.

Ok, so the torture didn't really work with him.. KSM told us what we wanted to hear, just like Curveball who said that Saddam had "Mobile Labs for Chemical Weapons" (Guess what? He didn't) and Abu Zubaydah who supposedly led us to KSM, but uh - actually didn't.

Bush discussed Abu Zubaydah’s treatment in his 2006 announcement. “As his questioning proceeded, it became clear that he had received training on how to resist interrogation. And so the C.I.A. used an alternative set of procedures.... The procedures were tough, and they were safe, and lawful, and necessary.” Soon, Bush went on, Abu Zubaydah “began to provide information on key al-Qaeda operatives, including information that helped us find and capture more of those responsible for the attacks on September 11.” Among them, Bush said, were Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the alleged 9/11 mastermind, and his fellow conspirator Ramzi Binalshibh. In fact, Binalshibh was not arrested for another six months and K.S.M. not for another year. In K.S.M.’s case, the lead came from an informant motivated by a $25 million reward.

Then there as Ibn-Sheik Al-Libi who told us Saddam was supplying al-Qeada with Chemical weapons training. Guess why he said that?

According to the ABC News report, one other detainee who was waterboarded was Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, the director of the Khaldan training camp in Afghanistan, who was captured in November 2001. His current whereabouts are unknown, although there are suspicions that he was finally delivered to the Libyan government. Having slipped off the radar, the government clearly does not want his case revived, not only because it may have to explain what has happened to him, but also because, as a result of the application of "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques," al-Libi claimed that Saddam Hussein had offered to train two al-Qaeda operatives in the use of chemical and biological weapons.

Al-Libi's "confession" led to President Bush declaring, in October 2002, "Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb making and poisons and gases," and his claims were, notoriously, included in Colin Powell's speech to the UN Security Council on February 5, 2003. The claims were of course, groundless, and were recanted by al-Libi in January 2004, but it took Dan Cloonan, a veteran FBI interrogator, who was resolutely opposed to the use of torture, to explain why they should never have been believed in the first place.

For the last time: the pre-war intelligence that led us into a war with Iraq wasn't "Flawed" - the techniques Bush authorized were.

Just like Bauer - both Bush and Cheney claim that they only did what thy had to do to Save American Lives. One of our chief Special Forces Interrogators from Iraq (the guy who helped hunt down abu Masub al-Zarqawi without torturing anyone) says, That's a crock of Shit.

I learned in Iraq that the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq. ... It’s no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, but it is fair to say that it is close to the number of lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001. How anyone can say that torture keeps Americans safe is beyond me — unless you don’t count American soldiers as Americans.

Bush claims he asked "what tools are available to us" - but the answer he received from John Yoo, Robert Delahunt and Alberto Gonzales in 2002 was - just pretend that the Geneva Conventions don't count and you won't get prosecuted.

Your determination would create a reasonable basis in law that (the War Crimes Act) does not apply which would provide a solid defense to any future prosecution," Gonzales wrote.

If Geneva was off the table (although the SCOTUS later said in Hamdan v Rumsfeld -"The HELL it wasn't!") , then all bets were off right from the start. All tactics they used from that point on - were their choice. It was Bush's choice, and he made the wrong one when he authorized water torture, sleep deprivation, stress positions and hypothermia as interrogation tactics.

Just like the Khmer Rouge, Augusto Pinchet, and the Right-Wing's darling hero Bauer.

Despite his claim that he "has no regrets" Jack - in a very Bushian way - seems to selectively forget just what he's really done, and how much of it went straight to hell.

- In the 2-Hour re-season opener "24:Redemption" Bauer had been ON THE RUN OVERSEAS TO AVOID A CONGRESSIONAL SUBPEONA.

Y'know like a mixture between Mark Rich and Karl Rove.

- The only reason he came back to the U.S. is because some Weaslely State Dept. "Bastard" tricks and blackmails him into complying with the law, by putting a bunch a kids that Bauer is protecting at risk of being butchered by an African dictator. Jack "redeems" himself by angrily giving in to the subpoena only so that the kids can be saved, not because he's made any decision to "face the music".

- But Jack Baeur and CTU have tortured kids before, including the 17-year-old son of a sleeper-cell leader, who himself - as it turned out - was completely innocent and didn't know anything. Nevermind the fact he'd already been granted immunity and was perfectly willing to talk. While they were busy and distracted doing that the bad guys SHOT DOWN AIR FORCE ONE, killed the President and captured the nuclear football. CTU later used the kid and his mother as bait, both were murdered.

Nice work Jack.

- Bauer failed to stop a nuclear suitcase bomb (a device which doesn't exist) from going off ion the outskirts off L.A., near Valencia. Bye Bye Magic Mountain. He later shot and killed one of his best friends in cold blood to protect a terrorist source that might have led them to another suitcase-bomb. He didn't.

- Jack hijacked Marine One and kidnapped President Logan out from from under the Secret Service in order to get him to admit being involved in the plot to kill President Palmer. (Which didn't work, but Logan did admit hiding his knowledge of it on tape later)

- Jack tortured his girlfriends ex-husband, Paul, just because he suspected he might be involved in a terrorist plot - but the man was innocent and didn't know anything at all. Eventually he figured out that the bad guys were using his company without his knowledge, something they could have figured out by just asking. Or getting one of the legal thingee's - whachamacallit - oh yeah, a Warrant! Paul, being a really good sport, eventually took a bullet for Jack and ended up paralyzed.

- Jack broke onto the grounds of the Chinese Consolate - which is an act of War - in order to torture and interrogate the Chinese Ambassador. The Chinese retaliated by kidnapping Bauer (and torturing him, but of course he didn't break), his girlfriend - the same one, Audrey - followed him to China - was captured, tortured and LOST HER MIND. (What was that about "No Regrets" again?) Her Dad, The Secretary of Defense, was a little peaved.

- He tortured his own brother, and his brother managed to resist it and hide the fact that the real bad guy - was their father. (Yes, this show is a rather pathetic soap opera isn't it?) Dear 'ole Dad then killed the brother to shut him up just in case he couldn't resist a second time, and setup Jack to take the blame. Real Great Family values there.

Even on their own damn show Torture Doesn't work at least half the time, now in the current season Jack's tactics are negatively influencing an FBI agent who recruited his help. She's already committed one act of torture - disabling the respirator of a wounded suspect - and Jack wasn't even there.

I'm not saying Jack hasn't had some miraculous successes for your basic FANTASY SUPERHERO WET-DREAM, but Call me "fickle"- he's not exactly a "Hero" in my book. "Mr. Awesome" he is not. Neither is Bush.

"War Criminal" sounds about right, but Lord God King of the Tools will just have to do for now.

Vyan

P.S. Wanna hear a truly great speech about torture? How about Denzel Washington as Agent Hubbard in 1998's The Seige!



PPS: I looks like the real life Agent Hubbard - Is Attorney General Nominee Eric Holder!!

This is a follow-up to my original post and I would have included it if I could, but it was happening in real time as I was posting:

Via Thinkprogress

Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) could not fathom that an Attorney General would reject a practice that both is unlawful and endangers Americans. He tried to get Holder to back off his anti-torture stance by presenting an absurd “ticking time bomb” hypothetical in which thousands of American lives are at stake. “You would still refuse to condone aggressive interrogation techniques?” Cornyn asked. When Holder replied that waterboarding is not the only interrogation method, Cornyn insisted, “Assume that it was”:

HOLDER: I think your hypothetical assumes a premise that I’m not willing to concede.

CORNYN: I know you don’t like my hypothetical.

HOLDER: No, the hypothetical’s fine; the premise that underlies it I’m not willing to accept, and that is that waterboarding is the only way that I could get that information from those people.

CORNYN: Assume that it was.

HOLDER: [Laughs] Given the knowledge that I have about other techniques and what I’ve heard from retired admirals and generals and FBI agents, there are other ways in a timely fashion that you can get information out of people that is accurate and will produce useable intelligence. And so it’s hard for me to accept or to answer your hypothetical without accepting your premise. And in fact, I don’t think I can do that.

A few minutes later, Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL) identified where Cornyn most likely thought up his torture-is-the-only-option scenario: “I understand Senator Cornyn’s questions. They are questions that anyone who watches Jack Bauer on ‘24" would ask.”

LOL!!!

Vyan