Rove says "Prove Me Wrong" - then tries to prove himself wrong

Rather than flinch, back down, fall to his knees and kiss the ring of Limbaugh after going half a round going nose to nose with him the way that Michael Steele and Rep. Todd Tiahrt and Phil Gingrey did or the way Congress generally follows him like a pack of whipped puppy dogs - Karl Rove has actually doubled down on his criticism of Official Republican Candidate for Senate, and full-on-wack-a-doddle, Christine O'Donnell.



Rove: Prove Me Wrong

Don't look out now, but We've got a JUMPER!!

And that Jumper is Karl Rove.

Karl Rove who admittedly hasn't really been right on his predictions since he gave us "The Math" to explain why Republicans would keep control of the House in 2006, and was not that much later - quietly ushered out of the White House and into the Private Sector - seems to have permanently spit out the Kool Aid all over his former pals Michelle Malkin...

"I just finished watching Karl Rove trashing GOP Senate primary winner Christine O'Donnell. It was on Sean Hannity's FNC show. Might as well have been Olbermann on MSNBC," Michelle Malkin wrote on her blog last night. "The establishment Beltway strategist couldn't even bother with an obligatory word of congratulations for O'Donnell."

Over at HotAir, Malkin's take was reposted it under the simple headline, "War." This morning, HotAir blogger Ed Morrissey took his own shot at establishment figures like Rove who he said should get over Mike Castle's defeat last night and hop aboard the O'Donnell train. Morrissey writes that establishment GOP types should rally around their nominee in Delaware, just as they would expect O'Donnell's supporters to do if Castle had won.

"Rarely have I seen such childishness from the supposed leaders of a political establishment, who set the very rules and customs they now want to ignore because they just got embarrassed on a national stage," Morrissey writes. "Grow up, shut up, and get to work."

Rarely? It's not like Charlie Crist, Lisa Murkowsky or Sue Lowden and their supporters all "hopped onto the Tea Train" after they lost their nomination fights. Neither is Mike Castle. I have the feeling all the Cracks in this Tea Pot just might be permanent.

Right, Sarah Palin...?

Palin, who endorsed the tea party-backed O'Donnell, was asked about Rove's comments on Fox News today: "You may have heard Karl Rove just a moment ago suggesting that Christine O'Donnell is not electable as a statewide candidate. Your thoughts?" Palin replied: "Well, bless his heart. We love our friends, they're in the machine, the expert politicos. But my message to those who say that the GOP nominee is not electable, or that they're not even going to try, well I say, 'buck up!'"

Yeah, people said YOU couldn't be elected Vice President and we call all see how that turned out.

And lastly Rush Limbaugh, who nearly popped of vein over Rove's "Betrayal"...

"If 51 seats was really the objective -- if getting the majority is really that important, then let's go balls to the wall for Christine O'Donnell!" Limbaugh screamed on his radio show today after playing a clip of Rove's already infamous anti-O'Donnell interview on Hannity last night.

"Why not fight for it?" Limbaugh asked. "Why not fight for it? Castle's OK as the 51st vote but this woman isn't?"

As a matter of fact, no she's not - because frankly, just like Joe Miller , Sharon Angle, Rand Paul and Carl Paladino - Christine O'Donnel is more than a half-bubble Off Plumb.

She's like a Refugee from Jesus Camp.


And we all remember how much Karl Rove may have been willing to take their votes, but he never had much respect for the Jesus Crowd

Three days later, a Tuesday, Karl Rove summoned [Don] Willett [a former Bush aide from Texas who initially shepharded the program] to his office to announce that the entire faith-based initiative would be rolled out the following Monday. Willett asked just how — without a director, staff, office, or plan — the president could do that. Rove looked at him, took a deep breath, and said, “I don’t know. Just get me a f—ing faith-based thing. Got it?” Willett was shown the door.

Kuo also writes that Rove referred to evangelical leaders as “the nuts,” and claims Rove deputy Ken Mehlman “knowingly participated in a scheme to use the office, and taxpayer funds, to mount ostensibly ‘nonpartisan’ events that were, in reality, designed with the intent of mobilizing religious voters in 20 targeted races.”

Maybe Rove's real problem is that "the nuts' are starting to take over the entier Republican tree. They're handy to have when their under your thumb, but not when their running you out of your party


O'Donnell -- The Government Spends Too Much Money on Aids or Obama is "So Liberal" he's Anti-American.



Not only that as Maddow already reported, O'Donnell is part of the "Pray the Gay Away" Campaign called SALT that flat is noting but flat out FAIL.



According to O'Donnell "Gay has always meant joyful and gleeful, until the homosexual agenda changed the meaning using the same tactics that Hitler's Nazi Germany Did."

Speaking of honesty, here's Christine O'Donnell on Politically Incorrect in 1998 discussing Bill Clinton and "the truth" in the midst of the Lewinsky Scandal with Jasmine Guy and Eddie Izzard. She argues that one should tell the truth and be honest, even if you're were hiding Jews and your house and Nazi's showed up looking for them (A scenario that became the opening scene of Inglorious Bastards)...



This take no prisoners, intolerant, inflexible position on so-called "honesty" is held by a person who at this time claimed to be a college graduate, but hadn't yet paid her back tuition and received her degree, and who sued the Non-profit Right-Wing think tank where she worked for sexual discrimination, claiming they had a policy that "women should be subordinate to men", while they argued that she was running her own for profit business on their time. She also sued them for lost wages, claiming they had denied her an opportunity to join a Master program Princeton when she hadn't even been accepted to a Masters program at Princeton, and as I mentioned before - didn't even have her Bachelors yet.


But she says people need to be "Honest always"? Really? This woman is a cold calculated Con Artist (like most money-grubbing Republican phonies from the Koch brothers to Rick Scott) she a semi-pro pseudo pundit who makes a living saying outrageous crap, it's as if a mashup of Ann Coulter and Monica Goodling had just won the Republican Primary - and the sad part is that all this time on the edge of the spotlight has given her more chops than most people would expect.

I think we risk underestimating her, Sharon Angle, Joe Miller and Rand Paul at our dire peril. The majority of Republicans probably will rally around her, even as non-ideological policy wonks like Rove begin to peel away. The wheels are coming off the Mad Tea Party Train, and exactly how much damage it will do before finally burning out and crashing is anyone's guess.

Vyan

Update:Predictable as Wet rain - Rove is now walking it Back. Roll Over Rovie. Heel. Fetch! Sit. Good Rovie!!



Update 2: It appears that Rove's initial projection was right on the money - Election Projection - now says that current polling data suggests that Repubs are likely to pick up just 7 seats in the Senate, not 8 - which would leave Democrats with 50 Seats and the majority (and that's not counting either Senator Sanders or Lieberman).

If O'Donnell does defeat Mike Castle, Republicans will likely have to go elsewhere to find the 10 seats needed for the majority.

Update 3: And then there was O'Donnell's accusation of President Clinton of being involved in Vince Foster's Murder on C-Span's Washington Note in 1996 appearing as the Founder of her Anti-Gay group SALT (Savior's Alliance for Lifting the Truth).

Imam Feisal Adbul Rauf of Park 51 on This Week

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf (rah-OOF') said in an interview that aired today that the controversy over the mosque site has heightened concerns among Muslims of rising Islamophobia. He says fear of Islam is possibly greater than it was immediately after the Sept. 11 terrorist attack.

He also says the project made the front page of papers when it was approved last December and was not questioned, and that it has become a debate for political reasons.

Inside Park 51 will be an inter-faith prayer area open to all, including Jews, Christians and Hindus, as well as a Memorial to 9/11. There is already a mosque inside the Pentagon, and used to be two mosques inside the World Trade Center.

Imam Rauf said this issue was publicly known since last December and that if he'd known it would turn into all THIS he wouldn't have done it, but now that it has - there's a danger into backing down and running away in that it would prove that point of the Radicals in Isalm that "America Hates Muslims".

But that's not the case, some Americans frankly HATE Americans - and Islam and Muslim are simply a tool for implementing that.



The mainsteam media is like the Dog from the Movie "Up".

Dog: "My master is so good to me, he gave me this collar so I could talk... SQUIRREL!

Vyan

Gingrich, Anti-Colonialism and Factual Insanity

In recent weeks Newt Gingrich has ratcheted up bogus arguments that Park 51 is some for of Victory Mosque over America, but has now gone so far as to argue that Obama is a "Kenyan Anti-Colonialist" who is just "pretending" to support American Values.

Joe Scarborough asked Andrew Card about it this morning, and even Card had to admit that he's "disappointed".



Via Thinkprogress

SCARBOROUGH: What about Newt Gingrich’s statement. What Newt Gingrich’s statements, are they hurtful for Republicans that are trying to provide strong leadership?

CARD: I don’t think they help. I don’t think that the statements that Newt Gingrich made are helpful, no. [...]

SCARBOROUGH: Andy, are you disappointed by Newt Gingrich’s words? [...]

CARD: Yes, I’m disappointed.

We all have to recall that Newt Gingrich was the original architect of the 1994 take over of Congress (which is how Joe Scarborough became a Congressman) and that during his GOPac strategy sessions he advised his crop of rabid and ready to rumble congress-critters to... "Go Negative Early" and "never back off".

What can we expect from this rising army? The Gopac's record provides some evidence. Much has been written about the tactics that Gopac suggested to its candidates. An article about Gopac leader Joe Gaylord (Wall Street Journal, 8 December 1994, page A18), for example, says:

Mr. Gaylord is one of the brains behind Gopac ... . [He] wrote its how-to textbook, which urges challengers to "go negative" early and "never back off". They must sometimes ignore voters' main concerns because "important issues can be of limited value". The book suggests looking for a "minor detail" to use against opponents, pointing to Willie Horton as a good example. Though it says a
positive proposal also can be helpful, it counsels candidates to consider the consequences: "Does it help, or at least not harm, efforts to raise money?" Mr. Gingrich has called the book "absolutely brilliant".

The core of Newt's current "Go Negative" strategy is this from NRO...

“What if [Obama] is so outside our comprehension, that only if you understand Kenyan, anti-colonial behavior, can you begin to piece together [his actions]?” Gingrich asks. “That is the most accurate, predictive model for his behavior.”

“This is a person who is fundamentally out of touch with how the world works, who happened to have played a wonderful con, as a result of which he is now president,” Gingrich tells us.

“I think he worked very hard at being a person who is normal, reasonable, moderate, bipartisan, transparent, accommodating — none of which was true,” Gingrich continues. “In the Alinksy tradition, he was being the person he needed to be in order to achieve the position he needed to achieve . . . He was authentically dishonest.”

“[Obama] is in the great tradition of Edison, Ford, the Wright Brothers, Bill Gates — he saw his opportunity and he took it,” Gingrich says. Will Gingrich take it back in 2012? “The American people may take it back, in which case I may or may not be the recipient of that, but I have zero doubt that the American people will take it back. Unlike Ford, the Wright Brothers, et cetera, this guy’s invention did not work.”

“I think Obama gets up every morning with a worldview that is fundamentally wrong about reality,” Gingrich says. “If you look at the continuous denial of reality, there has got to be a point where someone stands up and says that this is just factually insane.”

These guys can't argue with Obama as he presents himself to the public, and as he makes his points on the campaign trail or when necessary - in their faces - so they instead argue that Obama is All An Act. That he simply isn't the person he's pretending to be, he's some kind of stealth Kenyan - even though his father left him when he was two years ago and only returned once during his entire life. He's some kind of Non-American, and Anti-Colonialist. They have to "shadow box" with this Phantom Obama, since they can't be the real Obama.

What's even funnier is that he's getting all this from Dinesh D'Souza, who actually isn't an American - he's an immigrant from India. (And Laura Ingraham's ex-boyfriend from Dartmouth) D'Souza is such a raging Libertarian that he wrote an entire book which essentially argued that the only racism in America comes from Black people and Liberals, and the only way to truly fix it is to Completely Repeal the Civil Rights Act and just let the "Free Market" sort it all out. (Yeah, cuz that whole "let the free market fix it" idea worked out so wonderfully in the 190 years prior to the Civil Rights Act!) He actually dared to call this "insight" - The End of Racism. His more recent books have attempted to lay the blame for 9/11 at the feet of "The Left".

The left is responsible for 9/11 in the following ways. First, the cultural left has fostered a decadent American culture that angers and repulses traditional societies, especially those in the Islamic world that are being overwhelmed with this culture. In addition, the left is waging an aggressive global campaign to undermine the traditional patriarchal family and to promote secular values in non-Western cultures. This campaign has provoked a violent reaction from Muslims who believe that their most cherished beliefs and institutions are under assault. Further, the cultural left has routinely affirmed the most vicious prejudices about American foreign policy held by radical factions in the Muslim world, and then it has emboldened those factions to attack the United States with the firm conviction that "America deserves it" and that they can do with relative impunity.

So his solution here is that in order to make the Radical Muslims dislike us less, we should act more like Radical Religious Extremists so they can see we have their intolerant and repressive values in common?

What was that Gingrich was saying about being Factually Insane?

GOP Rule #1: Always accuse your opponent of what you're already getting away with, so when they point out the truth - they just look like whiners.

D'souza is such a rabid Liberal Hater, he would find a way to blame "the Left" for the kidnapping of the Lindbergh Baby if he could (and I'll bet he eventually will, just like Jonah Goldberg who pretty much blames the left for Nazism, the original spread of Polio and Sunspots)

It's also more that a touch ironic that this latests wave of pararacist, xenophobia, and 9/11 Trutherism being ginned up on the Right, is coming from a Non-White Non-American.

Robert Gibbs - correctly - thinks Gingrich is just Birther Baiting.

Gibbs: (Gingrich) is trying to appeal to a fringe of people who don't think President Obama was born in this country.

You can say that again.

I was listening to Thom Hartmann today and he was getting piled on by birthers. One woman argued that Obama isn't a "Natural Born Citizen" because both of parents weren't American citizens, and that instead he has dual citzenship - which I guess would be American and English since Kenya was still a British Colony in 1961. So now there's some "third" kid of citizenship besides being naturalized or born in America, in order to be a "Naturally Born Citizen" both of your parents have to be Citizens too? Thom pointed out at between six or seven of our Presidents only had one parents who had been at citizen when they were born, and that John McCain was actually born in Panama and acquired his Citizenship through his parents. (So did George Romney, Mitt's Father, who was born in Mexico - but was still able to run for Vice-President.)

I called in myself and after pointing out that the 14th Amendment (at least until Rand Paul & Tom Tancredo get ahold of it) says that "all persons born in the United States are Citizens" - and that in order for the core Birther argument to be true, that Barack Obama was actually born in Kenya - how exactly did his 17 year-old mother travel 12,000 miles to Africa while 9-months pregnant, give birth in a 3rd World Country and then smuggle a new born baby Barack all the way back to Hawaii in time for the next School semester and Not Leave A Trace!

Not to mention the two birth announcements in the local Honolulu papers.

Factually Insane Much?

Vyan

Meet the Christian "Bin Laden" - who threatened to Bomb Partk 51

There's quite a bit of talk these days, coming mostly from the Rightwing, that "Not All Muslims are Terrorist, but Most Terrorists are Muslim" - however, it appears that there are some determined self-avowed Christians who want a bit a credit for their own Terrorism Too.

Meet the Christian "Bin Laden", Justin Moose - who hates Obamacare, the "Ground Zero Mosque" and you're friendly neighborhood OB/GYN equally.



Via Thinkprogress

Justin Carl Moose, 26, is a self-described “extremist, radical” and the “Christian counterpart of Osama bin Laden,” according to an affidavit filed by FBI agents. [...]

“Whatever you may think about me, you’re probably right,” he wrote on his Facebook page, according to the affidavit.

“Extremist, Radical, Fundamentalist...? Yep! Terrorist...? Well, I prefer the term ‘freedom Fighter.’” [...]

Status updates posted beginning in January urge violence, FBI agents said in their affidavit.

“The Death Care Bill passed last night," he wrote when Obama’s health care plan was approved in March. “Keep your phone and rifle close and wait.”[...]

“If a mosque is built on ground zero, it will be removed. Oklahoma City style. Tim’s not the only man out there that knows how to do it,” the affidavit says he wrote in July, in a reference to Timothy McVeigh, who bombed a federal building in Oklahoma City.[...]

The local news report does happen to note The Gadsen Flag in the window of Moose's home, showing even more indications of "Tea Party" confluence besides is "Obamacare" and "Ground Zero Mosque" bashing, but the real bombshell is Moose's apparent open membership in the Underground Domestic Terror Group Army Of God.

The Army of God is an underground network of domestic terrorists who believe that the use of violence is appropriate and acceptable as a means to end abortion.

An excerpt from the Army of God Manual says that the Army of God "...is a real Army, and God is the General and Commander-in-Chief. The soldiers, however, do not usually communicate with one another. Very few have ever met each other. And when they do, each is usually unaware of the other's soldier status. That is why the Feds will never stop this Army. Never. And we have not yet even begun to fight."

The first public mention of the Army of God (AOG) is believed to have been when Don Benny Anderson used the AOG name in 1982 when he and Matthew and Wayne Moore kidnapped an Illinois abortion provider and his wife. The couple was later released unharmed and the trio were apprehended and convicted. Benny Anderson and the Moore brothers were also responsible for abortion clinic arsons.

They operate a bit like Terrorist Sleeper Cells, working autonomously to minimize contact, exposure and detection by the authorities. Y'know - just like al Qeada does.

Some known members of the Army of God include Paul Hill who shotgunned a OB/GYN doctor and his bodyguard to death in Florida, James Kopp who murdered Dr. Barnett Slepian, Shelley Shannon who fire bombed several clinics and shot Dr. George Tiller in both arms, and Eric Robert Rudolph the Atlanta Olympic Park Bomber, who also bombed several Women's Clinics and Gay Nightclubs before he was eventually caught.

Others who may not be actual members, but the AOG themselves find worthy of praise include Scott Reoder, who last year finished what Shelley Shannon started and killed Dr. George Tiller.

More on Army of God from Rachel Maddow.



Should we really be surprised by this after the activities of the Hutaree Militia, Knoxville Tennessee "Liberal" Shooter, Holocaust Museum Shooter, Repent Amarillo, Operation Rescue and Randal Terry who most recent appears was at Park 51 tearing up from the Qur'an and showing just how "sensitive" he is to the concerns of 9/11 being politicized...



So it might be fair to say that while Not all Right-Wing Nutjobs are Domestic Terrorists, most (nearly all) Domestic Terrorists are Right-Wing Nutjobs!

For his part Moose was apparently caught be the FBI in the process of planning a bomb attack on an Abortion Clinic and is scheduled to appear in Federal Court this week and faces 20 Years if convicted.

Oh, and by the way, the Arabic translation for "Army of God" -is- is very similar to Hezbollah.

Vyan

There was a rec'd diary on this a few days ago, but it didn't go more into the Army of God connection, or consider that it's multi-headed hydra tactics provide excellent cover and denial of responsibility for the most extreme anti-Obama, anti-Gay, anti-Muslim, anti-Black, anti-Health Care, Anti-Government, anti-Abortion wing of the GOP, aka The Tea Party.

"If you're mosque happens to get BLOWED UP - not saying that it will - WE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT - but maybe you should go talk to those guys over there, with the detcord and timers and Death To Islam T-Shirts at the far end of today's 150,000 angry white person rally..."

The Height of Insensitiviy - Man Burns Qur'an Pages at 9/11 Memorial

Guess what? Pathetic Pastor Jones isn't the only one with a almost complete lack of sense, this demonstrator in front of Park 51 actually did burn several pages of the Qur'an before being led away by NYPD.



The perpetrator doesn't say much, and what he does say doesn't make much sense.

Reports: Sir, what's your name? Why did you do it?


Perp: I have chosen to put the torch to the Qur'an.

Or some such, it's hard to make out over all the heckling he's getting.

Frankly, I don't want to know his name, his 15 seconds of fame has already been too long. But Maybe this guy who has over 5 Million youtube views can help shed some light on why someone would do such a thing.

Apparently it's not enough that almost 3,000 people had to lose their lives in a hideous act of religious mass murder, and the religion that murdered them is allowed to build a towering triumphalist mosque on the ground where they died. Is America losing it's mind? It saYS a lot about the people behind this scheme that hey had the bad taste to propose building a mosque in such a place, but to describe it as they have as a "tribute to the victims" is beyond bad taste, and shows a profound contempt for those who died. It would had to imagine a more provocative gesture short of standing on their graves and burning and American flag.

I'm not even American but it makes me sick to my stomach to think that there could be a mosque anywhere near Ground Zero.

Well, not being American I guess you fail to understand that we don't check people's religious credentials at the door in this country, because there already is a mosque just 4 blocks from Ground Zero, plus one in inside the Pentagon just yards from where the plane impacted. Imam Feisal Rauf's current mosque - which has been there for 28 years in Tribeca - is just 10 blocks from Ground zero.

Besides the fallacy of believing the Crazy 72 Virgins Crowd represent the core of Islam, it's not as if Tim McVeigh, the IRA, the KKK, Christian Identity Groups like Stormfront, The Knoxville Tennessee Shooter, The Holocaust Museum Shooter, the Hutaree Militia, Repent Amarillo, Rev Donald Spitz and his "Army of God", Scott Reoder (Killed George Tiller), Eric Rudolph (Olympic Park Bomber), Paul Hill (Shot an OB/GYN and his bodyguard) and Shelley Shannon (Firebombed Abortion Clinics, Shot George Tiller in both arms) represent the core of Christianity, because they don't. Muslims died in the Twin Towers when they collapsed. Muslims died who served on the police force, in the fire dept, and as EMT's. Muslim's fight along side us - and apparently you're countrymen - in Iraq and in Afghanistan. Muslims are our allies in Jordan, in Kuwait, in Saudi Arabia, in Indonesia, in Chechnya, in Pakistan and in Europe.

We can not afford to treat 1.5 Billion people in the world - who have had nothing to do with any attacks on us - as our enemy, that is just insane.

Whose side of this conflict are these people really on?

This is how they have responded in Afghanistan to the threat to burn Qur'ans by Pastor Jones, even though he ultimately didn't go through with it.



I don't think they're going to be happy with Mr McBurns-a-lot on the streets of New York, but perhaps seeing how the crowd reacts to him and the following people who were also there might be able to help them realize the proper way to show their opposition and displeasure. (Dueling Demonstrations from New - CBS Local News)



As opposed to these people:



Somebody seriously needs to tell these people that THIS is what the Park51 Facility will contain.

Park51 will grow into a world-class community center, planned to include the following facilities:
outstanding recreation spaces and fitness facilities (swimming pool, gym, basketball court)

. a 500-seat auditorium
. a restaurant and culinary school
. cultural amenities including exhibitions
. education programs
. a library, reading room and art studios
. childcare services
. a prayer space, intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community
. a September 11th memorial and quiet contemplation space, open to all

A basketball court and a culinary school that includes a Memorial to 9/11 and prayer space open to Christians, Jews and Hindus as well as Muslims. THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE Up in arms about.

Just imagine the Horror if they were going to include a Badminton Court?

This place is essential a YMCA, with an open prayer space for persons of all faiths to use and a 9/11 Memorial for persons of all Faiths to sit and contemplate our collective loss, and our collective hopes.

It is essentially what Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf describes at the beginning of this video - a place for the overall community to interact with those of the Muslim faith and gain both understanding and common purpose. It's an olive branch, not a "triumphant Victory Mosque"




All of this tells me this country still has a long way to go. I look at this and I see that we haven't learned from the tragic mistake of Iraq, where we attacked and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims who had nothing to do with 9/11, did not have a stockpile of WMD's or an active Nuclear program in place - and lost another 4,000 of our own in the bargin, plus thousand more wounded, traumatized and brain damaged.

9 years after 9/11 and we have not fully understood that Islam is not our enemy, that we are not engaged in a "Holy War" or a "Crusade" against them, that instead we need to build trust and marginize the extremists until they have no more friends in the words, no more places to hide, no more allies who will protect them.

To Attack Islam - instead of al Qaeda - is going the wrong direction.

When are we all going to figure that out?

Vyan

Soledad O'Moran vs Imam Rauf

In this interview it is revealed why CNN isn't worth a good God damn.

Soledad O'Brian is snide, rude, dismissive and completely uninformed about her subject, Imama Feisal Adbul Rauf, head of the Cordoba Initiative and architect of the Park 51 project- but then again, what else should you expect from the Corporate News network?



Just as a contrast look at this report from that radical network - CNN - which profiles Imam Rauf, and contrary to Soledad, seems to know something about him. Wow, look what some basic research on your subject can do!



In this piece, it is noted that Imam Rauf has indeed been working on behalf of the U.S. State Dept for the past 2 months and has been overseas in that capacity, feeling that is was inappropriate to address a situation like this from other shores.

In this piece, it is said that he is of the Sufi sect which is opposed to the radicalism and violence of Al Qeada, Hezbollah or Hamas. (Yet, Still Soledad has to ask him if he "condemns" Hamas for their actions - FACE PALM!)

In this piece it's pointed out that Park 51 is not an Islamic Mosque, but an true Inter-Faith Center which will include not only a prayer space for Muslims but also for Christians and Jews. It is pointed out that it will contain a 9-11 Memorial that will be open to persons of all faiths. (Yet still, Soledad has to ask him repeated why he won't simply move "the mosque" somewhere else - where, naturally it's 9-11 memorial would have no meaning or power - and continually harangue on him about how people who don't know half the facts, like the fact it's not a "Mosque", "feel" about it)

Simply put this is not a "Victory Mosque", but is instead an Inter-Faith Community Center Design to enable Muslims and non-Muslims to get to know each other casually in order to help build the bonds of peace. (Yet Soledad continues to ask, over and over again, "Are you still going to build it there" - ignoring the fact that opposition to the mosque has already helped Taliban Recuitement, the result of moving it in capitulation to all the whining would at the very least make it skyrocket, and hence Feisal being sensitive to that old pesky issue - National Security - is not going to run away and hide simply because of few opportunistic politicians have decided to create a false issue out of the situation and put our Troops in the crossfire as a result)

Watching this, is literally like looking at two people who are living in two parallel dimensions try to have a coherent conversation. instead of the multi-phasic quantum train wreck their experiencing.

The bit about the strip clubs, which Soledad blows off as irrelevent is especially poignant as Rauf responds to her "How can something be 'Sacred Ground' when it includes Strip Clubs?".

is this a Sacred Strip Club? Holy Strippers for the Lord? Oh geebus, don't let any of those dirty Muslims near the Strippers - who knows what might happen! (Someone might wind up with big pile of singles in their g-string)

This is a farce, from top to bottom.

Whose side are you on Soledad, America's or the Radical Christian/Muslim Extremists? Frankly the the radicals from both sides (as Feisal points out repeatedly) are only people who benefit from this situation and want to prolong it, so why are you helping them so stupidly and enthusiastically, Ms. O'Brain? (No, that wasn't a typo)

For his part Feisal does a credible job of making his case, despite Soledad's dismissive attitude and rude interruptions. It's fair to say that some hard questions needed to be asked and answered in this situation, but - gee - if Soledad had only bothered to watch her own damn network she would have already had the answer to half those questions, and wouldn't have had to repeat them 4 or 5 times after Feisal gave a perfectly logical and coherent answer.

Sad and pathetic "journalism" you got there.

vyan

The True Lesson of 9/11 - It's Just Us.

It is so much better to now have a President that can, off the cuff, articulate the true American heart in such a clear and heartfelt way.


Everyone has talked about this in the last day, but listen to him - really listen to him.

"I think I've been pretty clear on my position here. And that is, is that this country stands for the proposition that all men and women are created equal, that they have certain inalienable rights; one of those inalienable rights is to practice their religion freely. And what that means is that if you could build a church on a site, you could build a synagogue on a site, if you could build a Hindu temple on a site, then you should be able to build a mosque on the site...

On the day nine years ago, America was attacked, America was wounded. America was broken and in response we lashed out. We attacked and invaded Afghanistan in pursuit of those who attacked us.

Then America got off track. And we connected Saddam to 9/11 and al Qaeda. We began to go after them - everywhere. We invaded a secular nation, in search of a pack of Sunni Religious Extremists. Finally that war is winding down, nearly ended - the first Afghanistan War is beginning to reach it's conclusion.

And our new President, even if not entirely according to his plan, is leading us out of that darkness and back into the courage and the light of our true ideals.

"We are not at war against Islam. We are at war against terrorist organizations that have distorted Islam or falsely used the banner of Islam to engage in their destructive acts. And we've got to be clear about that. We've got to be clear about that because ... if we're going to successfully reduce the terrorist threat, then we need all the allies we can get. The folks who are most interested in a war between the United States or the West and Islam are al Qaeda. That's what they've been banking on.

We are at War not with Islam, but with Extremists who would distort Faith into Hate. Who would kill in order to "save" us from ourselves. Islam is not our enemy and never has been. Some of us have known this all along, others still seem to be ignorant of it.



On this day, we should strive to remember not only our collective shock, horror, pain and grief on that day, but also what binds us all - what common hopes we all have, what common values. We should not let those who wish to continue to divide us, be they American Conservatives who wish to Demonize Islam as Rachel describes here, or be they radial Islamicist radicals overseas who attempt to do the same.

We can only defeat and out argue all of these forces if we do so together - rather than separately.

"And fortunately, the overwhelming majority of Muslims around the world are peace-loving, are interested in the same things that you and I are interested in: how do I make sure I can get a good job, how can I make sure that my kids get a decent education, how can I make sure I'm safe, how can I improve my lot in life. And so they have rejected this violent ideology for the most part, overwhelmingly.

"And so from a national security interest, we want to be clear about who the enemy is here. It's a handful, a tiny minority of people who are engaging in horrific acts and have killed Muslims more than anybody else.

A tiny minority of people. Just 19 guys on a set of airplanes. Just about 100 guys in Afghanistan. Just about 30-50 people in Gainseville Florida. All it takes is a few people will to stand up against that hate, like those who fought through the smoke and fire on that day, to undo all the harm that they wish to do.

"The other reason it's important for us to remember that is because we've got millions of Muslim-Americans, our fellow citizens, in this country. They're going to school with our kids. They're our neighbors. They're our friends. They're our coworkers. And, you know, when we start acting as if their religion is somehow offensive, what are we saying to them?

"I've got Muslims who are fighting in Afghanistan, in the uniform of the United States armed services. They're out there putting their lives on the line for us, and we've got to make sure that we are crystal clear for our sakes and their sakes: They are Americans. And we honor their service. And part of honoring their service is making sure that they understand that we don't differentiate between 'them' and 'us.' It's just 'us.'"

Ultimately this battle moving into the future is not simple a War of bullets and bombs, but a War of Ideals and Ideas.

It is not "Them" vs "Us" across a religious gulf. It's Just Us!.

That is the true lesson of 9/11. Many died during the attack on towers. Many more died in the invasion and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan. In then all of those people - combatants, non-combatants, military, civilian, innocent, guilty - are just us.

We live on one world. We are one people. We are one race - the human race.

God bless us all.

Vyan

Obama's Weekly Address on This Day.



My own Video Retrospective/Tribute to all of what we've seen and done these past 9 Years:

The Supremacist Radical (Terry Jones) vs the Interfaith Moderate (Faisal Rauf)

Despite what Gen. Petreaus says about this proposed Hate Crime of burning the Qur'an - and make no mistake It Is A Hate Crime - this wackjob actually thinks he's defending America? He's defending Christianity? Just imagine if they were planning to Burn a Cross on their front lawn? (Which the SCOTUS determined was not a protected form of free speech in 2004)? Burning a Flag is a political statement, but burning someone elses religious text is an act of Hate and Terrorism. He's an embarrassment, he's a Hate-Monger and nothing more.



Attorney General Eric Holder has come down hard against this action, considering how anti-mosque protests have already emboldened the Taliban and helped their recruiting efforts.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Attorney General Eric Holder is calling the planned burning of the Quran at a Florida church idiotic and dangerous. The Justice Department confirms that Holder made the remarks in a meeting with religious leaders to discuss recent attacks on Muslims and mosques around the United States.

The first video is good, but it's actually during the second portion of the interview that Andersen really nails this apparent scam artist and American Talibani. Full Transcript.

COOPER: Sir, on -- on your Web site -- on television, you say one thing. On your Web site and in your preachings, you say something else.

You say there should be no Muslims allowed to immigrate to the United States and you say there no new mosques should be allowed to be built in the United States.

Do you deny saying that on your Web site and in your preaching?

JONES: No, I do not deny that.

COOPER: OK.

JONES: That is my -- that is -- that is my opinion, but my opinion does not supersede the Constitution.

My opinion, we would be better off if we paid more attention. We would be better off if we really checked the Muslims that immigrated here. We see that problem very clearly in Europe. That is my opinion. That is not the Constitution.

So, I stand to the Constitution, that they have freedom of worship and freedom to build mosques.

He doesn't just oppose building Park51 near the Ground Zero site, he opposes building Any mosque in the U.S., or even allowing any Muslim to enter the U.S. So is he a bigot?

COOPER: Do you consider yourself a bigot?

JONES: No, not at all. And we do not consider our message a message of hate.

It is -- it is a clear message of warning. We have tried to make it very, very clear that, according to the United States Constitution, Muslims are more than welcome in America. They are welcome to worship. They are welcome to build mosques.

We have made that very, very clear. I understand they're not in agreement. And they're mad and angry. They're -- they're -- they're insulted because we are burning the Koran, but they should, indeed, be with us on the fact that radical Islam is bad. It is evil. We do not want it in this country.

See, he's not a bigot - he's just against radical Islam - and every mosque in the country, and every Muslim in the country. But he's not "hateful". Nooooo.

Cooper: But I asked about the bigotry, because the definition of a bigot that I just got off Dictionary.com is a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, especially on religion, politics or race.

You do appear to be remarkably intolerant on any ideas other than your own regarding religion.

JONES: We are -- as the Bible teaches, as Jesus teaches, we are intolerant, yes.

COOPER: So, if bigot -- so if being a bigot...

JONES: And the Koran does not...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: So, if being a bigot is being intolerant of anyone else's ideas on religion other than your own, you would -- you would say, yes, you're a bigot?

JONES: We believe there is only one way, and that is Jesus Christ. People have freedom to worship as they please. That is what I said.

People have the "Right" to worship as they please, they should just worship how I say they should. Yea, that would be the definition of Intolerant Bigotry right there.

JONES: Jesus Christ is the only way.

COOPER: You're stating a fact there. But that's not your desire. You don't want Muslims to have freedom to worship in this country. You don't want Muslims to be able to build new mosques here. You don't want more Muslims coming to the United States. Correct?

JONES: That is not correct. And it depends on who you are asking.

COOPER: On your Web site, you say: "Stop all Islamic immigration. You're only coming to this land to take over and try to enforce the Islamic laws upon us." And you say, "Stop building all mosques until churches can be built in Saudi Arabia."

So, you don't want Muslims coming here and you don't want new mosques being built. You're -- I know you're not saying that's the law. Under the Constitution, they can. But you're saying, you don't like that.

JONES: It is my opinion, yes. As I said -- as I said, as a Christian, I wish that all Muslims would get saved. I wish that they would all convert to Christianity, because Christianity is the one and only true religion.

The Koran, in our opinion, is an evil book.

Yeah, that's not bigoted at all. He's only against Radical Islam except that he's thinks the book read and worshiped by all the non-radical Muslim's is "Evil".

JONES: Do you want to know what the Bible says about the Koran?

COOPER: ... to answer the question, I understand. But -- but I'm just asking the question, have you read the Koran?

JONES: I said no. I have read parts of the Koran.

If you add to this book, let him be accursed -- that's what the Bible says about the Koran.

My wife tells me this is quote from St. John the Apostle in Revelations - but it's out of context. John was talking about his own writing - he was talking about Revelations itself which was written around 87 C.E., not the entire Bible which wasn't compiled as a comprehensive book until Emperor Constantine made Christianity the official religion of Rome around 331 C.E., nearly 150 years later.

The Qur'an wasn't even written until 632 C.E., another 300 years later - so how exactly did St. John comment on it 5 centuries previously?

You know who else believes that "everything would be fine if everyone would just convert to his religion"? Osama Bin Laden, that's who.

Contrast this Dangerous Nutball with the actual Imam for Cordoba House/Park 51 who has written an Op/Ed in the NYTimes. Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf is a Sufi, part of an Islamic sect which opposes the extremism of the Sunnis in Al Qaeda or the Shia in Hezbollah, and has operated a Mosque just ten blocks from Ground Zero for the last 28 years.

Our name, Cordoba, was inspired by the city in Spain where Muslims, Christians and Jews co-existed in the Middle Ages during a period of great cultural enrichment created by Muslims. Our initiative is intended to cultivate understanding among all religions and cultures.

I am very sensitive to the feelings of the families of victims of 9/11, as are my fellow leaders of many faiths. We will accordingly seek the support of those families, and the support of our vibrant neighborhood, as we consider the ultimate plans for the community center. Our objective has always been to make this a center for unification and healing.

President Obama and Mayor Michael Bloomberg both spoke out in support of our project. As I traveled overseas, I saw firsthand how their words and actions made a tremendous impact on the Muslim street and on Muslim leaders. It was striking: a Christian president and a Jewish mayor of New York supporting the rights of Muslims. Their statements sent a powerful message about what America stands for, and will be remembered as a milestone in improving American-Muslim relations.

Quite a few people, like David Gergen and even Newt Gingrich have argued that if they want to truly generate "Inter-Faith" with Park 51/Cordoba they should include an Inter-Faith area of Worship. I myself had argued that this is the only compromise they should seriously consider. Well, THEY ALREADY DO.

At Cordoba House, we envision shared space for community activities, like a swimming pool, classrooms and a play space for children. There will be separate prayer spaces for Muslims, Christians, Jews and men and women of other faiths. The center will also include a multifaith memorial dedicated to victims of the Sept. 11 attacks.

So why should this be moved? It already is a inter-faith and multi-faith worship center - not a "Victory Mosque". It contains a Memorial to 9/11 open to people of all faiths. So the argument is that this memorial is TOO CLOSE to the actual 9/11, or that the fact that in includes Muslims as well as everyone else should be a reason that is "too insensitive" to the victims of 9/11 when many of those victims were Muslim too?

Talk about the opposite of Intolerance and bigotry.

Vyan